So a buddy of mine sent me an email with a video link discussing “illegal immigrants” using health care facilities in the United States. Along with the video came some text (that he did not write). It’s one of those emails that gets sent around to the ever present protesting subculture of web users. Here’s the text that was in the email:
This is one small hospital in Florida…Unbelievable! PLEASE WATCH THIS SHORT VIDEO. EVERYONE NEEDS TO HEAR THIS. IT AFFECTS EVERY ONE OF US!!! This is why you can’t afford good health care. This should offend every US tax paying citizen. This is not only happening in Florida, but every state in the U.S.
Before I make any comments, you’ll need to watch the video.
So you’re probably outraged that this could happen, especially if you’re one of the many tens of millions of Americans who do not have health care or who are in mountains of debt because of health care bills that you can not pay. Imagine returning to your country of origin and leaving all of those bills behind — and not even having to pay for your return flight! I’m sure you’re thinking that that would be a nice option to have.
But as matters such as these go, especially things that seem so incredibly outrageous, there are always other factors to consider.
Let me discuss just one. There are over four million U.S. citizens living permanently in other countries. This doesn’t include students studying abroad, nor are Americans serving at U.S. military bases on foreign part of the mix. It does include people working for multinational companies, however. So if we assume that half of this group (two million people) are simply living on their own in foreign countries and not for some company that probably provides them with health care, we probably should also assume that a large number of the remaining number of people are uninsured. Anecdotal observation on my part while spending years living abroad would lead me to conclude that there are a lot of people who just wanted to blow out of the U.S. and live somewhere else because they didn’t appreciate their lives here — like many of the nearly 700,000 Americans currently living in Canada.
Here’s the hitch. A significantly large segment of these uninsured, free-wheeling expats are living in countries where they have access to government health care (e.g., Canada, UK, Mexico, among probably a hundred other places). What do you think happens when one of them who is living on the Cliffs of Moher on the west coast of Ireland is suddenly stricken with pneumonia? Do you think that the locals just let them die? Absolutely not. He or she goes to the hospital and the Irish doctors and nurses take care of the problem. And when it’s time to pay? Sometimes the hospital is reimbursed and other times the staff simply says “You’re welcome” as our fellow countryman or woman walks back into their Irish life.
Back in the 1980s I spent three days in a hospital in Mexico City having my appendix removed. It was a crazy story — and I mean A CRAZY STORY — and one that I never seem to get around to telling. It was in a hospital in a particularly gritty part of town and the doctors said that an appendectomy was a simple procedure for them compared to the gun shot and knife wounds they typically dealt with. My total bill? A pint of blood. They asked me to donate a pint of blood…adding to the end of the request, “if you wouldn’t mind.” That’s it. Here’s this gringo hanging out in Mexico who eats too many jalapenos and drinks too much tequila and ends up needing an emergency appendectomy — and the people of Mexico have to pay for it. I’m sure some investigative journalist could have done a provocative expose about the hospital beds that were being occupied by “rich Americans” while poor Mexicans were being turned away.
I’m not saying that all things are equal and that U.S. citizens should be happy and willing to pay for the health care of people who are living as undocumented laborers in this country. What I am saying is that I’d like to see someone add up the total health care costs of Americans who are living abroad that are paid by foreign tax payers. If I had to guess, I’d surmise that the total cost for foreigners who lack insurance and are living legally or illegally here in this country would be more, but only because our health care costs are inflated. Many of the million dollar charges discussed in the video are largely unreasonable, even if they are true on paper. For example, my wife had shoulder surgery last summer and her insurance company was billed twenty bucks for a small bag of ice that they got out of an ice cooler. So I imagine that if the Guatemalan man receives a few packs of ice every day for a year, that amounts to $22,000 — and I’m sure the hospital is keeping track of every single charge hoping that they’ll one day be reimbursed by somebody…anybody.
I’m also not saying that this is something about which we ought not be concerned. And it’s unreasonable to think that any hospital should absorb all of the charges for the care of someone who is not even a resident of the state in which that hospital or clinic is located. However, let’s keep these matters in their proper context because when we point a finger at someone else there are always three directed back at us.
Illegal immigration is a clearly a problem in the United State of America and probably will be for a long time! It is fairly easy for immigrants to sneak into our nation and stay in our nation. These people are not US citizens and are exploiting our country in so many ways. This video isn’t even the beginning of all the problems that illegal immigration causes, but is a great example of how expensive illegal immigration really is. Illegal immigrants are not being turned away in hospitals even after the hospital calls the police and proper authorities telling them the situation. Not only is this irresponsible on the governments fault, but incredibly expensive on the citizens of this country. The women in the video said that she has 6 patients that are illegal immigrants that are getting dialysis 3 times a week! These patients are being allowed this privilege and are not being punished or turned away. Obviously one of the main reasons that illegal immigration is so terrible is the effects on the economy. These people do not pay taxes in any way shape or form, yet they enjoy maybe benefits everyday that tax dollars are spent on. Health care is just one small example, and it is clearly very expensive due to the evidence in this case and I’m sure there are plenty more documented cases that are similar. These people do not pay taxes on their land if they own any, jobs are mostly under the counter, education (their children go to public schools and go for free because their parents don’t pay taxes), and the list doesn’t end. These people come to the United States of America and cripple our economy in a time where our economy is already the worst it has been in years. There are many issues involved with why these illegal immigrants stay illegal and why they are not citizens but something has to be done! Either the United States government has to be a lot stricter in punishing illegal citizens, or the United States has to make all of these people citizens so they can start paying taxes. Taxes continue to go up all the time because of how poor our government manages and spends their money, and along with not dealing with many small situations like allowing illegal immigrants healthcare. All of these financial irresponsibility’s and mistakes are costing United State’s citizens lots of money and creating hard times for the nation as a whole. Rules are made to be followed not broke; these illegal citizens need to stop being allowed to exploit our nation. These people need to be turned down for healthcare, along with everything else that they free roll on. Illegal immigration is a very serious and expensive problem here in the United States and things need to be done to stop it!
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I think it would be fascinating to “add up the costs” as Sam proposes, and see how foreign taxpayer spending on our expats compares to our “spending” on illegals here. Such would be a very intriguing study.
All in all, Americans must realize how unique their healthcare system truly is in the scheme of the Western, modernized, developed world. The American system is entirely privatized and consumer-based. As such, it operates like any other sect of the economy in the sense that it responds to supply and demand, spending and inflation. Consider the text that came with the email:
This is one small hospital in Florida…Unbelievable! PLEASE WATCH THIS SHORT VIDEO. EVERYONE NEEDS TO HEAR THIS. IT AFFECTS EVERY ONE OF US!!! This is why you can’t afford good health care. This should offend every US tax paying citizen. This is not only happening in Florida, but every state in the U.S.
The most interesting sentence reads, “This should offend every US tax paying citizen.” Should it? In this country, we do not pay for our own healthcare via taxes! I repeat, we do not pay for our own healthcare via taxation. We pay for care/treatment and health insurance premiums (to help us with paying) out of pocket. OUT OF POCKET (with the exceptions of medicare and medicaid)! So it’s not the taxpayer, necessarily, that ought to be pissed off, it’s anyone who pays for or can’t afford healthcare or insurance either individually or through employment benefit (and especially anyone who just plain hates dirty immigrants and non-’mericans!). What happens here is that extraneous spending like this inflates the cost of care, which insurance companies must respond to by increasing premiums. I’m no economist, but yes, in the long run this does affect all Americans, and all of us need care at some point.
The foreign healthcare systems thousands of American expats are ‘leeching off of’ in countries like Canada, are fundamentally different in organization and principle.
The Canadian system, for example, is not privately-based. Rather, a standard federal system is funded through taxation that provides insurance to all. By all I mean yes, universal coverage is achieved. All residents and citizens in Canada, by definition, have access to care. Everybody. However, this does not mean Canada boasts “free healthcare,” in the misinterpreted sense I hear many Americans espouse. All working taxpayers in the great white north, flannel-clad loggers, Newfie fishermen and expats alike, pay for this system with tax dollars. The idea is that it’s free when it counts. For instance, you won’t have to pay an ambulance and a visit to the ER or doctor. There are no “co-pays” on these services. I hope that makes sense. So, on something resembling an academic salary, one pays 35% income tax, and half of that 35% going towards healthcare. So in this case it is indeed the taxpayer, not some “consumer,” who is suffering from moochers. The same goes for expats in Europe.
But here’s the real hitch. Canadians, by and large, aren’t complaining about these moochers. Believe me, I’m a Canadian citizen. The Canadian system is founded on the principle that healthcare is a basic right for anyone and everyone in the country, not a privilege for the rich only. We’re willing to afford you healthcare because that’s part of the whole idea, the whole philosophy, which means to serve a “greater good” of universal healthcare. If you work in our country as a resident, you’re paying these healthcare taxes too, so by all means, you deserve it.
The American system, by contrast, is based on the notion that healthcare is a privilege special to those who can afford it, i.e. those with cash. If you can’t afford it you don’t get it. As such, these aliens really are violating the system. But the system is failing, or rather, it has failed. 46 million Americans now lack health insurance and access to affordable care. That’s about 15% of the population, I believe. If this is isn’t evidence of the utter failure of the American healthcare system, I don’t know what is. These sorts of figures are absolutely unheard of in the rest of the Western world! You might say the US system has come to be defined by its failures and its being ‘unfair.’ Illegal aliens mooching while 46 million (a growing number) are struggling? Hmm. Sounds about right to me.
Let me be absolutely honest here. These sorts of issues play a big role in defining foreign opinion of the United States. Sam’s right, we can’t point a finger without finding more fingers pointed back at us. In this case, the Western world points one big ass finger at the US. Your system is part of why the rest of the world looks down on you, even though you’re “No.1″ on top. This is part of why millions of expats left in the first place. Despite your mission statement, you can’t seem to extend the inalienable rights to Life and the Pursuit of Happiness – which in large part depend on health – to 46 million of your own citizens! I leave out Liberty here, because most liberty lovers I think would claim that one can certainly be both sick and Free, perhaps even dead and Free. In any case, these countries would not exclude out Americans simply because they would not sink down to your level. They don’t think lives, even American ones, are worth nothing more than a sum of money, say a $2000 insurance premium.
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This is a really difficult subject to talk about mostly because we are talking about individuals who are helpless and in a state where they need immediate medical attention. Alternately, I cannot even begin to count how many times I have heard this exact same argument and concern voiced at my own dinner table (my brother’s wife is the head nurse at Lancaster General Hospital). It is very difficult for me to take a stance on this, because in most of these cases what are you really supposed to do? Just turn the foreigner away to die? Bill the country that they’re from and hope to God that you get a response? What do you do if not? Part of my indecision here lies in the bias I hold against hospitals to begin with: they are business organizations and many times are conducted in exactly that fashion. Let me give you an example of how this also affects our wallets and my opinion: My father had diverticulitis (small pockets formed in his intestines that became inflamed and caused him extreme pain) and was admitted to the hospital as a result to have surgery to take out 4 feet of his large intestine (the affected area). While he was admitted, he was approached by a doctor and told about a clinical trial of a drug that may have been able to stop the damage and reduce the pain. While its not always legal to push clinical trials on patients, mentioning them is not. For those patients who take interest in alternative treatment (maybe not even a clinical trial, but some other course of action than the one traditionally prescribed), the cost appreciates for the hospital, and in the end is only hurting taxpayers.
While that may have been a digression because my personal grudge against hospitals as businesses, the point is that there are thousands of ways that health care is taking money out of everyones wallet that you don’t necessarily know about unless you look into it. In turn, knowing that makes it very difficult for me to take a side here, no matter how upset about losing my hard-earned cash I am (Which by the way pisses me the hell off).
Alternately, how can you consider yourself a human being if you knowingly deny treatment to someone who will otherwise die without it?
To me, the largest problem here is the unresponsive nature of the other organizations that are being contacted: the government basically showing no interest in illegals, and the countries that said illegals come from not responding to the hospitals calls to take them away. THIS is the injustice here, not that the hospitals are taking care of sick/dying individuals. Instead of begrudging taxpayers with these burdens, and then looking cockeyed at the hospitals for taking care of illegals, some legal course of action should be taken against the other countries that are not responding to these calls. Admittedly, it’s not that simple, but nothing ever is. Ultimately, there is no reason to point fingers at hospitals, or illegals in this case (tough some of them may be siphoning off the health care intentionally) but instead to address the unresponsiveness of those institutions contacted about the problem.
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The subject of healthcare is a very complex topic, especially when it comes down to American healthcare. Many countries have free healthcare and people do not need to worry about finding the money to get a procedure done or live without a finger for the rest of their lives, for example. However, having lived abroad in London for my high school career, I can personally say that this is not necessarily the best method. I’m sure that to many people living within the United States that cannot afford healthcare, this system would be more than ideal. But after seeing it first hand, it is hard to say which may be better. Both have very distinct pros and cons. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, in London will complain about their healthcare system. One reason is that the quality of care there is just not the same as you would get in someplace like the states where it is privately funded and on top of this the administration is horrible. It takes a lot of effort to get anything done medically, but on the other hand, you don’t have to worry about cost. In the states, the quality is fantastic compared to pretty much the rest of the world. Why is this? Simply because of capitalism; hospitals, believe it or not, are in fact businesses. They try to make profit and so do the people who work in them. One example of this is the twenty dollar bags of ice that were probably free to make. This is not to say everyone in the medical game is only in it for money, but looking at the circumstances it definitely seems like hospital administrators act more as business men/women than doctors who care about their patients. I hate relating real life to television shows because most of the time what you see is in fact inaccurate but one example does come to mind. In the show “scrubs” about a hospital there is a character named Dr. Kelso who is the hospital administrator. What I am trying to illustrate with this character is his demeanor in regard to the hospital. He puts on a nice face around all the patients but in the back of his mind there is always the business side which comes out when he is not around them. He only cares about the monetary value of the hospital and not at all about the patients and will not hesitate to get rid of someone who could stay extra but doesn’t NEED to. Obviously this is a show and on top of this it is a satire about a hospital so this is probably an exaggeration of real life, but I am not at all reluctant to believe that there can definitely be people in such positions of power that do mirror Dr. Kelso.
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Okay so pretty much the lady in the video to me is totally correct. Although doctor Richards might be right about Americans in other countries getting the same type of health care these are only the documented illegal immigrants. What about all the other men and women who come from Mexico or Honduras or Cuba or anywhere else for that matter? There are definitely more than 4 million illegal citizens in this country. According to the Urban Institute there were over 9.3 million in 2004, and that was five years ago. Most likely since most are labor employees than more than half of them are going to the hospital for something minor or major, and what about births and other hospital visit.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were close to 20 million today, are borders are so unprotected, a story of a police officer two years ago was a shocking one. An officer of the border control was put in jail for shooting a person crossing the border along Mexico and New Mexico, even though he was shot at first. So someone is trying to get into the country, shoots at and officer who then returns fire and the officer get put in jail. How the hell does that happen?
I believe that we are too loose with the lockdown of our borders, honestly if they want to become citizens then why can’t they wait? Okay, maybe it’s true that our ancestors came early in the nineteenth century and emigrated from where they came from, but I’d like to believe that if there were strict laws about it then they would have abided them until they became citizens.
Back to the hospital topic, look I understand that if a person is dying then they shouldn’t be turned away to die from a hospital. But why should they go back to their home country when they get better and free medical services her at the price of taxpaying citizens. The thing that’s in the grey area is what happens when they the illegal immigrants have children in America, and then those children are automatically American, because they were born here. Now I believe that our country should be full of diversity but them getting things many Americans can’t even afford. The argument can also be said that many illegal immigrants pay taxes, but not enough. I know that there is a big problem with are health care system but with things like this happening and the hospitals giving away medicine to someone who can’t pay all is just hurting the advancement of something that needs a lot of help. I don’t believe that people that come into this country and don’t want to assimilate to our culture shouldn’t get free health care.
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I have never thought about health care quite like this before. I understand that this is a large issue for hospitals, especially in areas like Florida where there are large amounts of illegal immigrants. I guess I should’ve thought about his more, considering I live next to Kennett Square, PA, which is the mushroom capital of the world. Kennett Square is a hot bed for illegal immigrants. Many mushroom farmers hire illegal immigrants to work on their farms. This equates to the fact that the hospitals close to my house are probably littered with illegal patients who can’t afford the medical bills they acquire. This all adds to the fact that my parents are probably paying massive amounts of money to help these illegal immigrants. I really don’t know where I stand on the illegal immigrant issue, but thinking about the millions of Americans who live overseas helps. It is a good point that millions of Americans are overseas using other country’s healthcare systems. The only reason why illegal immigrants using our healthcare system is such a big deal is because, as Sam explained, our healthcare system is severely inflated. I mean come on, twenty dollars for an ice bag? Are we nuts? I don’t care if there was the best ice made with the best quality of water in the world, one bag of ice should never, ever, cost twenty dollars. I think in order for people to be legitimately outraged over this issue, we need to fix our health care problems first. Also we need to take into account why we have hospitals. Aren’t hospitals put in place in order to help anyone who is injured? I don’t think it should matter as to what country you are from or whether or not you are covered to have the correct type of procedure. Hospitals are put in place to help those in need, not to deny someone the proper treatment. I think we as Americans should stop complaining so much about supporting others, because let’s say something changes and all the hospitals worldwide aren’t allowed to help people from other countries if they aren’t covered properly. Nobody wants that and I think it is our duty as human beings to help those in need, whether it be to hold open a door for an elderly lady or to help an illegal immigrant in need of medical care. As I’m writing this I am starting to get clear where I stand. I think our hospitals should help everyone in need, no matter what. I also remember that I have a very close family friend who is very passionate about this topic. His name is Patch Adams, and there was a movie about him a while ago starring Robin Williams. Patch wholeheartedly believed that it shouldn’t matter what type of insurance you have or where you are from, if you are injured you deserve to be helped. Patch started to build an insurance free hospital and the hospital is currently still being worked on. I hope one day that we can have all of our hospitals have the open door policy that Patch hopes for.
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This is a very controversial issue and can be fought about either way in terms of against it or for it with very substantial reasons behind both. Personally, I feel like it is pretty messed up that we need to treats these illegal immigrants in the first place. If they are not paying taxes, they should go to a free clinic or pay for it out of their own pockets. Healthcare is a very expensive thing both for the providers and receivers. When an illegal immigrant just walks in and uses free health care, everyone else is getting hurt besides that person. The health care institution is using their personal resources and finances to help the individual out. They do not even know though how or if they are going to get the money back in the end. The place probably hopes that the government of the person themselves will end up paying. However, in reality no one is probably going to pay since that is how our country really works. Furthermore, other citizens of this country who are just bystanders are also being hurt. Everyone else has to start paying more for their premiums and health care costs so that health care companies and institutions can make back the money they lost on the individual.
Subsequently, I do not think it is a responsibility for the hospitals to help illegal immigrants even though the rest of the world helps others and us when people come to their hospitals though. We are not other countries we are the United States. Nevertheless, when any person walks into a hospital dying, it is definitely necessary that the person be treated. For extreme situations, exceptions need to be made and the person definitely needs to be treated. After a certain time, or till the individual becomes even a little stable, the hospital should not have to be responsible for the patient. A hospital is a business basically, and they cannot offer goods and services to people for free; seriously, it just not possible or feasible for anyone.
Also, regarding how hospitals inflate everything they give to their patients, I do not think there is a problem with that. Again, a hospital is a business and needs to make an income at the end of the day so they can expand their organization and capabilities. Without overcharging people, that would not be possible. Plus it is not like there is only one hospital that people can go to, rather there are thousands, so people can go somewhere else if they think they are being overcharged. Overall, the lady in the video brought up a great perspective that I never heard of before, and I think she is totally right and something should definitely be done about it.
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Tiffany Hawkins
Journal 6 Soc
Those Undocumented Thieves
I know that people are always talking about how illegal immigrants are a problem and how they are affecting our economy and where our tax money goes. I do not think it is fair that people who do not pay for health care or pay taxes in our country can go to the hospital and be helped for absolutely no cost at all. However at the same time it is not fair for people from our country to go over to other countries and do the same exact thing. I agree with the fact that every time you point a finger at someone else there are three pointed back at you. No one can go around in their life and just blame other people for doing so many things wrong and doing things that are not right in places they are not even from. But I mean at the same time there are always people from our country doing the same exact thing. There will always be people from our country going to other countries to take from the benefits from their tax money or the benefits that they should not be receiving as a foreigner. I also think that there is no way for anyone to be able to control or monitor every single person or group of people that comes into their country whether they are illegal immigrants or not. There is no way for a country to be able to keep track of every entrance into their country. There is no way for any country to be able to make sure everyone that comes to a hospital or comes to receive benefits of our tax payments is actually paying taxes themselves. There are too many people in each country and too many other problems the country should be paying more attention to than illegal immigrants or people “robbing” their country of their tax paying benefits. I mean it is not all illegal immigrants or foreigners go to another country for. They do not just plan to go to a country and get hurt or just make a plan so they have to go to the hospital to take away from other people’s tax money. Illegal immigrants and foreigners may come to another country or leave their own country because of the benefits their country lacks. They could want to experience new freedoms they never had or never even knew were possible. They could even just want to experience a culture that is completely different from their own to learn about another group or culture of people it is not all about how they are or are not “robbing” us of our tax dollars. It is more about the fact that every country has to deal with it and every country has people who do it.
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Cayla Rasi
At first when seeing this video I thought to myself “wow I’m so lucky that my parents pay my insurance and health bills.” And then I thought to myself “over break I have a dermatologist appointment, regular family medicine doctor visit, a facial and massage (massages help the mental health you know….), and a visit with my psychologist (I have to talk about stress here at school to someone!)” and in the end, all I really need is to go and visit with my family doctor—that’s the most important to my health. I really don’t NEED to see a dermatologist (my skin is clear 99% of the time, but because I get a pimple here and there and my parents are big on the “take care of your skin”… I’m going to see a dermatologist). Who cares about a dermatologist and having a “mental health” day and getting a massage and facial at a spa—these things are not essential to survive!
People are asking for our help—whether they are legal or illegal in the country—and we need to reach out to these people and gracefully offer our services to them and help them get healthy. I’m sure there are many cases where American’s are turned away in certain countries for health care. But I’m sure those cases are more rare than people being helped. It’s embarrassing to think that we are being picky of who gets medical help in this country. We are having Dance Marathons yearly here at Penn State to help children and I understand that they are American’s and their parents are paying American taxes—but way not have dance marathons to help non-American’s that need medical care while here in the US?
I also never really understood the process for who decides if people can live/and work in the United States. If someone could explain this to me that would be fabulous. But to me right now it seems as though someone is sitting behind a big desk at a capital accepting or rejecting people who are wanting to come to live and work in this country. Okay, so someone gets to decide who stays and who goes, but doctors shouldn’t even be asking for identification to see if you are American or not and depending on who/what you are according to your nationality—that will be the determining factor of if you get medical help or not. I fully understand that it is important and helpful to know patients’ medical history, their blood type, allergies, etc. but their nationality … really? Is that really necessary?
Also, the money that people are donating to hospitals, the money that is paid in taxes, the money that is paid when it comes to medical fees that are paid by insurance companies and that are paid by the individual seeking medical help—where is all this money going? Not everyone needs medical help to the extreme and we are paying to have these services in case we do need help (I understand the bills go up if we do need help, but we are still paying a fee/tax/bill [whatever you want to call it] and that money has to be going some where). May be it’s going to the doctors; several doctors have such large salaries here in the United States, whatever happened to being a doctor to help people? Who really goes to medical school saying “if I was paid as much as a social worker, I’d still go through all of this expensive school and I would still work the long hours I am about to endure”? who really actually says that? That’s sad if people are going through training to be doctors because they know that they will be well off for the rest of their lives.
Let’s help people, actually help people and not question whether or not we should reach out and lend a hand.
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I feel like you can’t even really compare the two aspects of this. United States citizens living in other countries (the majority legally I’m assuming) and receiving health care and people coming over to the United states illegally, some solely to use our medical services. I am not a person that feels strongly against illegal immigration but I think it is ridiculous to say that everyone does this not just illegal immigrants. In Sam’s example of his appendectomy, he was given a fee of no actual cost. He didn’t avoid paying his bill he didn’t go missing when given a price he simply wasn’t asked to pay. So saying he took free health care isn’t the same as someone having a fee to pay and then disappearing. Also Sam said he was in the gritty hospital which you cannot really compare to many of the United State’s facilities. It is definitely a plus getting cheap medical care but coming from the U.S. and going into a gritty hospital I wouldn’t expect to pay anywhere near as much as I do hear. It’s nice that there are people in the world willing to perform medical procedures for next to nothing out of the good of their heart but coming to America you shouldn’t expect that. Many U.S. doctors are ridiculously over paid which isn’t right but it should be expected. We have a standard of being “the best” and while that may or may not be true our high American costs come with that. As greedy as America is there are some good people who like many people from other countries are willing to do things because they’re good people, but that shouldn’t be expected from the U.S.. Immigrants using American health services becomes a huge cost to citizen because the greedy Americans that we are we just want the money, we don’t really care who it comes from. I have no clue how much other countries are affected by this. Personally I would think that it’s a lot smaller of an issue elsewhere but I honestly do not know. But I highly doubt that it is people working for multinational corporations causing the issue. Americans working for worldwide corporations probably are doing pretty well in terms of money. While there may be people trying to avoid there medical payment many of them are probably people planning on being honest and paying their bills. It would be nice if more doctors were willing to perform services for little to no money for people from other countries where services are inferior. But this would only anger Americans, especially people with lower income struggling to afford their medical bill or even avoiding necessary health care due to cost.
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Healthcare is a huge issue in the United States. I can understand both sides on this issue. All people in this country should be given healthcare in my opinion. It is frustrating when people think their money is being stolen from them when its used to help immigrants receive healthcare they need. I think that many people who travel from the United States to other countries and end up needing extreme medical procedures would most likely come back to the U.S unless it was an emergency. I think there should be ways to help assist immigrants to pay for healthcare if they traveled here to start a family and are trying to get a job. As long as they are legal immigrants I believe they too, are entitled to proper healthcare. I sometimes think thats immigrants do try to take advantage of the healthcare in the United States. These immigrants probably do not intentionally want to take money from the U.S citizens but have no other choice at times. Put yourself in their shoes, they probably have a family and an emergency came up and they had no other choice but to go to the hospital. Many of the immigrants probably believe that they should be given healthcare because they work in the country. They put hours in for employers, and when most people do that they receive healthcare in return. The people that employ the immigrants are also wrong because they are doing so illegally. No one ever thinks that the employers are wrong however. It is hard not to sympathize when with them. They come here to work and ontop of making minimum wage, they are expected to pay for medical bills. Plus, our economy is not the best at this time, the unemployment rate is extremely high. Illegal immigrants take these jobs. Illegal immigrants sometimes receive the best healthcare in the nation when they do not deserve it whatsoever. Other people are being cheated out of this who contstantly work hard and pay the full amount of taxes required by the law. This is a constant debate in politcs, but it is so much hard when you meet the person that this is actually happening too. It is so exasperating when we are paying the full taxes when they are going to people who do not evne pay anything at all. Plus, I bet many of the people living overseas from America are not covered in the countries they moved to. If something were to happen to them, I doubt a hospital in that country would say no they can not come in. I also bet these Americans do not see themselves as doing something wrong or cheating others out of what they rightfully earned.
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The video regarding illegal immigrants using our health care facilities in the United States really strikes a cord with me personally. My family is unable to afford health insurance, and therefore if anything comes about that my family may have to go to the hospital for, we may not go. Very often my parents complain of back pain, or any pain really, but know that they cannot go to the doctor or hospital because there is no way that they would be able to afford the bill; and so they continue to live with chronic pain day in and day out. It’s a cycle that is never ending, and it breaks my heart to see it. It is also a cause of constant worry for me being away from them at school.
So to see this video, and hear this lady testify about these cases is a hard pill for me to swallow. Actually, it is almost unbelievable. For health care to be such an impossibility for some people, while some people who are here illegally get treated and then their flights home are PAYED for, is shocking and quite frankly really irritating.
I understand all of the points that Professor Richards has made regarding Americans using other countries’ health care systems overseas to their advantage, but that doesn’t mean that it’s right.
It is clear that our health care system in the United States needs an overhaul. With the way things are going, clearly some things are not working out. I know that I am not alone in my worry for my parents; I’m sure there are millions of Americans that also worry about the ones they love due to their lack of health insurance or improper medical coverage. I do know that President Obama is attempting to work on this, and I am excited to see where this goes.
I must agree with Professor Richards that our medical care is grossly overpriced, but the blame for that goes to many different places, and again, doesn’t make it right for people here illegally to get medical care and then not pay for it. The money has to come from somewhere, and unfortunately it comes right from my parent’s pocket, the same people whom cannot afford their own medical care and yearly check-ups.
The message that is being circulated with the video may also be a little bit overdone and intense. I’m sure this isn’t the main problem affecting taxpayers, and most likely isn’t the only reason that our health care system is the way it is. It is certainly now visible to me though, and something I will likely keep in the back of my mind for some time to come.
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So our tax dollars are being spent on operations and health care for illegal immigrants. Of course I am upset to find out that my health care costs have gone up because of this. People that don’t live in our country are coming into our health care facilities, using the services, and then being sent home with a pat on the back. This video hit home considering I work on campus. Finding out that the money my job takes out for taxes goes to paying for health care for illegal immigrants is disappointing. If I knew that my taxes were being misused, then I would have preferred that my job withheld money. That’s like an illegal immigrant walking up to me, reaching into my pocket, and walking off with my wallet. But of course, if I were a doctor, I would do the cutting and sewing first, and ask for the bill later. I don’t think anyone could be heartless enough to turn away someone who really needed attention.
Hearing that we, as Americans, could leave the country and possibly take advantage of free health care elsewhere, makes me want to pack my bags. Now studying abroad sounds a lot better considering there’s the chance that I would not need a health plan. Unfortunately, I am not one of the lucky few who have been on both sides of the fence. My money is paying illegal immigrants, my health care rates are going up, and there’s nothing I can do about it. So right now I do not mind pointing a finger because I’ve never been off the east coast. The only thing that would level the playing field is holding illegal immigrants accountable for the health care they receive. Otherwise, the United States citizens suffer a deficit that hits out pockets. And the same laws and ideals should be upheld in other countries. Americans should be accountable for the health care they receive outside of this country as well. Ultimately, somebody is going to have to pay in the end. We all just need to take responsibility for the services we use and stop pointing fingers at other people.
As Americans, we also need to learn how to use our health care wisely. You don’t always need to take your daughter Jill to the doctor when she scrapes her knee or when she has a flu. People wonder why health care costs so much, yet the go to the doctor to get diagnosed for things they already knew beforehand. If you break your arm, there is no need to go to the doctor and have him look at it. The doctor is going to tell you your arm is broken and send you back home. And on your way out you have to pay a co-payment. Use that money you wasted on that consultation and get the cast instead of having them approve a cast.
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I do believe that this deeply affects every one of us. Plenty of hard-working Americans cannot afford good health care. And even what some may consider, “good” health care doesn’t come cheap. I know plenty of people who deserve nothing short of the best health care and at least sufficient care for a reasonable price. Instead athletes who are among the best in our country are put into debt paying off the shoulder surgery that they need in order to represent USA in the Olympics. I know another person who had to take off from work to have knee surgery. During the surgery the patient acquired a staff infection and needed two subsequent surgeries to flush out the infection and was then stuck with the bill for all three surgeries even though it was the doctor’s fault that the second two were even necessary. Also, for me and many of the other graduating seniors who don’t have full-time employment complete with benefits waiting for them in May we’re stuck to find some sort of health insurance. Thankfully most of us are in fine health and are likely to have continued good health, but how can we take a gamble on our health and potentially our health? That’s the case for me as a New Yorker at least. I’m not certain about the policy across the country. So you know what…I do think this is outrageous and I do wish that it did not happen. Regardless of how many Americans are living anywhere else in the world this is an issue for us Americans currently living in the United States.
On the rhetorical question about whether or not we think that Americans or left to dies from pneumonia by the local in Ireland, well no, which Sam informed me and that’s nice to hear. But we also are not letting their people die, and we easily could just deny them care, but that would just be heartless and inhumane really. I think it is human nature to want to help someone in need and it would be horrendous to turn down a person that you could help. I guess the root of the issue is illegal immigration. If illegal immigration could be controlled then we would not have to deal with this obstacle. Our country isn’t doing so hot these days, and maybe we’d be a little better off without having to take on the costs of those who are in our country illegally.
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Ah heath-care. Another fun topic. What are you going to do? You want to be the one to pay for everyone to get it free? Or do you want have the guilt and shame on your back of turning away an immigrant, or anyone else, in need of emergency care? As Sam talked about with affirmative action there is no easy solution. Nothing is really completely fair. Its sad to think that we even consider money before the life of a human being, but that is exactly what we do. If you can tell me that you would be completely understanding if your mother got sick in another country and instead of paying for medical treatments the foreign country let her die then I allow you to accept the policy of turning away illegal immigrants within moments of death. Just because they are “illegal” it doesn’t mean they aren’t human beings. If your going to eat the grapes they pick or buy the cheap products that they make so affordable then you’re the reason they are here. I am not saying I don’t, but I also don’t believe we should be letting them suffer when we have the treatments they need behind hospital doors. They probably make up for there medical cost many times over. The way we consume they save us millions of dollars every year. Maybe since we pay them far less than the legal rate for wages we should provide all of them with free heath-care. You can not expect to benefit from these people without giving something in return. The woman in the video claims in one year illegal patients cost them over $100 million dollars. First off I would like to see the paper work, but second is it really all about the money. Can she not be proud or happy that her hospital has saved so many lives and helped so many families? If President Obama ends up creating universal health-care don’t think this problem will be solved. It will help poor families in the United States, but not these same illegal immigrants. So what is the solution? Maybe farm and factory owners who employ illegal immigrants should have to set aside a portion of the money they save by employing these workers and create a fund for when they are injured or need medical care. That way the ones benefiting the most would be the ones covering the cost. Whatever the solution, it is not turning these people away. We need to get our minds out of pockets and start treating and thinking of each other as human beings. For now we need to continue to treat and help these people until a better solution comes around, but please don’t believe that turning away the workers who make your life as affordable and luxurious as it is, is an option at all.
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I think Dr. Richards may be getting into my head a bit now. While I was watching the video I began to think of this situation from the perspective of those illegal patients, and the reversal of the situation in other countries caring for Americans. And just as I thought of the words in my head, there I read it on the blog. I guess I am beginning to think like a sociologist, but I doubt this is the thinking process of millions of other Americans. Like the people in the video, they are outraged at the thought of having to spend their own tax dollars on illegal immigrants, which they may rightfully be. However, it’s the fact that Americans in other nations in need of medical attention receive all the help they need, often at little to no cost, which they must consider to properly judge this social issue.
This blog entry brings up another important social issue, our health care system. I don’t know if many people have seen the movie Sicko, but Michael Moore caused me to begin to doubt the morality of our health care system. It shouldn’t all be taken as the honest truth, as Moore’s films are only a biased view of the issues he investigates. Granted, in Sicko, I saw many examples of normal Americans unable to afford health insurance, turned down by hospitals for life-changing (and sometimes saving) procedures. Also shown were the dream-like health care benefits that are offered in France, such as personal servants subsidized by the government to take care of your home and save you from having to do your dishes, and doctors driving through all hours making house calls (not to inconvenience their French citizens). While many of the scenes and stories were shocking, Sicko also uncovered an important point which I think is the true problem behind most of our health care issues. The problem is money. The medical industry has grown entirely too rich by monopolizing our health. Prices have become inflated to the point where nearly no medical bill looks fair. Your own health shouldn’t depend on how much money you can spend, it should be a basic human right. Everyone is dealt a different hand of illnesses and injuries throughout their lives. Some may be dealt a royal flush, leading a healthy life with no need for major health care expenditures, while others may be less lucky, dealt a genetic condition or a near fatal accident. It shouldn’t be a matter of money, but of what care you need to stay healthy. The people in that courtroom are missing the point. I would just like to be assured that whenever and wherever I am in need of medical attention, my doctor will be thinking about helping me, and not about how much cash he can squeeze out of my insurance company to buy new plasma TVs for the waiting rooms. And I hope that everyone thinks the same, because there is something wrong.
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Watching the film clip and reading the statistics on the amount of money that goes to illegal alien’s medical bills does offend me. While I do understand that it is completely acceptable in certain situations (such as the incident with the appendix) for them to be covered, I think that there should be a limit.
While I was watching the clip, I thought that it was ridiculous that the woman was talking about covering a man’s medical bills for two years. I understand that he was in need of medical care and attention, but carrying it on for two years was a bit much. They could’ve tried to contact the family or the authorities sooner. Two years of debt to a hospital totaling 1.5 million dollars is excessive and more than what was needed.
I’m not totally sure how this could be reformed. Maybe by enforcing a limit to the amount of money given to illegal patients, hospitals wouldn’t have to pay over a million dollars. I think that every life is worth saving. I also think that it is also important to make sure that even after lives are saved, they are stable.
I’d like to think of it as a philanthropy – donating money to people who need it. If I was ever in a foreign country visiting, or even living there without being a full citizen yet, I would want to be taken care of.
Even if they aren’t paying taxes, a lot of illegal people are working labor jobs. Let’s be serious – how many Mexicans does everyone see doing construction or landscape work? And how much do we think they’re getting paid? I know for a fact that they do not ask for or expect as much money as other citizens of America. My friend owns a supermarket and her dad will go to a McDonald’s in a not so nice part of town and pick up Mexicans who stand on the corner waiting for work. He will pick them up, give them a few days of work, and pay them under the table for cheap. He receives better, harder work for less bitching and less money. If you take into account how many immigrants are working for close to nothing, it actually helps the economy. Less money earned is less money gone.
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Alright, I have to admit that I was a little irritated that mine and my family’s tax money is going towards illegal immigrants who use the health care system. Not only had that irritated me, but the fact that they grow that much debt and then they do not even have to pay it also irritated me as well. I think it is a little ridiculous that the health care system has to use their own money, thirty thousand dollars of it, to send illegal immigrants back to their country. For the family of the illegal immigrant who was sent back is sewing the hospital for sending him back, I think that is a little ridiculous. What did they think was going to happen when their illegal immigrant went to the health care facility and stayed there that long and racked up that much money? Is it not enough that our health care system took care of him for two years and dropped his 1.5 million dollar debt, and then they took money out of their own account to send hi back? Is that not enough? They should be grateful that the American Health care did that for him instead of being angry. It is a loose loose situation. If the health care system would have turned him away, the family would have been infuriated, likewise, for taking him in, taking care of him, and then sending him back. If it were not for them, he may not even be living right now. Plus, they are spending all that money suing the health care system in Florida when that money can be going towards his debt that us Americans are eventually going to have to pay. It is not the fact that they are illegal immigrants that irritate me; it is the fact that they have money to at least put a little forward and they do not. They would rather spend it trying to get more money. That just does not seem right to me.
On the other side of the fence, I agree that Americans living in other countries without health care should have to put a little money fourth instead of being handed health care for free. We do not like when illegal immigrants use all our facilities and do not have to pay a thing; therefore, we should not do that in their countries either. Also, I think it is a little ridiculous that our health care is sooo expensive. Twenty dollars for a bag of ice, honestly? Now that is freaking ridiculous. I remember my mom getting a bill for my dad’s ambulance ride to the hospital after he died. We live like 10-20 minutes form the hospital and the bll was nearly 600 dollars!!!! For what? It is not like they pulled some miracle cure to save his life, they did not. If I would have know it would have costs that much, I would have drove him there myself. He probably would have got there faster and there is a good chance he may be living. All I am saying on this fact is that there is absolutely no reason for out Health Care to be so expensive.
All in all, I do not think Americans should get so mad at the fact of illegal immigrants because there are some of us over in other countries doing the same thing to them.
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Alright, I have to admit that I was a little irritated that mine and my family’s tax money is going towards illegal immigrants who use the health care system. Not only had that irritated me, but the fact that they grow that much debt and then they do not even have to pay it also irritated me as well. I think it is a little ridiculous that the health care system has to use their own money, thirty thousand dollars of it, to send illegal immigrants back to their country. For the family of the illegal immigrant who was sent back is sewing the hospital for sending him back, I think that is a little ridiculous. What did they think was going to happen when their illegal immigrant went to the health care facility and stayed there that long and racked up that much money? Is it not enough that our health care system took care of him for two years and dropped his 1.5 million dollar debt, and then they took money out of their own account to send hi back? Is that not enough? They should be grateful that the American Health care did that for him instead of being angry. It is a loose loose situation. If the health care system would have turned him away, the family would have been infuriated, likewise, for taking him in, taking care of him, and then sending him back. If it were not for them, he may not even be living right now. Plus, they are spending all that money suing the health care system in Florida when that money can be going towards his debt that us Americans are eventually going to have to pay. It is not the fact that they are illegal immigrants that irritate me; it is the fact that they have money to at least put a little forward and they do not. They would rather spend it trying to get more money. That just does not seem right to me.
On the other side of the fence, I agree that Americans living in other countries without health care should have to put a little money fourth instead of being handed health care for free. We do not like when illegal immigrants use all our facilities and do not have to pay a thing; therefore, we should not do that in their countries either. Also, I think it is a little ridiculous that our health care is sooo expensive. Twenty dollars for a bag of ice, honestly? Now that is freaking ridiculous. I remember my mom getting a bill for my dad’s ambulance ride to the hospital after he died. We live like 10-20 minutes form the hospital and the bll was nearly 600 dollars!!!! For what? It is not like they pulled some miracle cure to save his life, they did not. If I would have know it would have costs that much, I would have drove him there myself. He probably would have got there faster and there is a good chance he may be living. All I am saying on this fact is that there is absolutely no reason for out Health Care to be so expensive.
All in all, I do not think Americans should get so mad at the fact of illegal immigrants because there are some of us over in other countries doing the same thing to them.
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So, I’m actually really pissed at that woman and her facility that sends the illegal immigrants home. I, personally, think that that is being very un-American to actually turn somebody away. Sure that person is not paying taxes, but it is still possible to bill the illegal patient. I was really mad and I fully back the family that is suing because their relative was shipped back to his native country. It’s actually very disgraceful that the hospital would even consider sending the man back. Other countries would never turn away a person who was in need of medical care, no matter what the status. That seriously makes my blood boil.
Unlike the medical system, the education system actually cannot turn anybody away. I was reading in an article that if a school finds out that one of its students is illegal, the school cannot do anything. The school is legally obligated to continue teaching the student. If the commitment was not legal, it should at least be a moral commitment. Every student has the right to learn an education, no matter what the status. Also, the school is not allowed to give out any information to the public (or the government as a matter of fact) about the status of a student. The school is legally bound not to give out any information that would cause any harm to the students. Knowing the status of a student could put the student in a lot of danger. I know that this applies for the public school system, but I am not quite sure about the private school system. Because the private school system is not regulated by the state, they have entirely different rules.
One way, I think, on how to solve this problem is to create a committee that would find illegal immigrants. It would not be the Heroes round up, because these people are not dangerous. Many illegal immigrants are here because conditions in their native countries are not what they expected. This could deal with every possible aspect, from the government to the fact that they are unable to find a job. Once this government funded committee finds the illegal immigrants, the committee would offer several options to these people so the illegal immigrants can be the country legally. I was picturing that that this committee would be able to offer green cards, to student visas, to actual applications for citizenship. I believe that this would reduce many of the border and illegal immigrant issues and problems. That way, the need to hide under wraps about your status would be eliminated. This committee would also create many jobs, and somewhat elevate the economic crisis.
The Statue of Liberty is holding a plaque that states, “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” When we send people away based on status, we are going against what the Lady Liberty has stood for, for so many years. I feel like we do not deserve this statue when we turn people away. I’m disgraced and ashamed.
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Healthcare has always caused many problems within our nation. Watching that movie was eye opening, but at the same time it only raises more questions for me. I believe that it is hard to even consider not letting people receive care from a hospital because they do not have healthcare. Illegal immigrants can at times take advantage of our health care system, such as receiving dialysis, but if they need emergency care I do not see the harm in helping a fellow human being. I understand the outrage some people feel towards this system, but they do have to consider if they were in their shoes. Hospitals should not allow people who cannot pay to receive long term care, but someone who is an accident, should be taken care of. I could only imagine the frustration the woman in the video felt about having to pay for that man’s flight home to his country of origin. I think that is an absolutely ridiculous expense to have to pay for someone who has already racked up thousands of dollars of care up until this point. The cases discussed by this woman are some of the most extreme cases, but at the same time, they do occur more often than anyone would ever think. Most of the times, people go in for simple care and are in and out in a reasonable space of time.
I do see why many people in our society get angry by basically providing free healthcare to some of these illegal immigrants in our country. I know my dad becomes really worked up when talking about this issue. He works really hard to provide for our family and some of his hard earned money goes to these people who sometime take our system for granted. However, when Sam brought up the fact that Americans go to other countries and use their healthcare systems over there, it did make me think about our double standards. If Americans are receiving all health services in other countries without paying the full expense, then how can we require that of everyone in our country? It is difficult to compare our healthcare with the healthcare in other countries because ours is on such a higher scale, but it is the same idea. People in the country they are visiting need to get the necessary treatment, and hospitals in all countries do not turn them away in emergencies. As our fellow human beings need care, the only right thing to do is to provide them with it. However, at times it is difficult to see both sides of the argument, and it needs to be understood that it is hard for some to approve of this system when they seem to be the ones getting the short end of the stick.
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The subject of healthcare coverage is a topic that has been debated for many years. It played a big role in the recent Presidential race between Barack Obama and John McCain. Almost everyone has his or her own views on how it should be in the United States. There are several million people living here who cannot afford healthcare. Also, the people who do have healthcare insurance are bombarded with bills that can be accumulated to over $100,000 when they receive treatment. The price of healthcare in this country is at an all time high and there are many of us who simply cannot afford the right healthcare. That is why I agree with what the hospital and government in Florida is trying to do to the illegal immigrants who are going to hospitals in the United States. The fact of the matter is that the people who are actually citizens of the United States should receive health care coverage first. The people at the hospitals in Florida that are racking up millions of dollars in bills should be deported immediately. They are not supposed to be here. They have no intention of paying back the millions of dollars they owe to the hospitals and even for their flight to return home to their country. Therefore, hospitals in the United States are out money that could have been used to treat those who are officially citizens of the United States. I’m not agreeing with how health care is set up here but it is what it is. Those that are citizens of the United States should have first priority to receive the treatment.
I do feel that the way healthcare is set up in the United States needs to be reformed. The price that one has to pay when they go to the doctors or check into the hospital is outrageous. Even doctors are forced to pay several of thousand dollars to pay for malpractice insurance. Their salaries reflect this, but many doctors are forced to give up their practice because they too cannot afford the high level of money they are forced to pay if they mess up on a procedure. There are many civilized countries that have universal healthcare paid for by taxpayers’ dollars. Hopefully sometime in the near future, with a new President who is all about change, the citizens of the United States will not have to worry about paying such a high price for healthcare insurance and coverage. Then stories like those of the Mexicans and illegal immigrants will be stories of the past, and we can help those in need of care. Also, much relief will be granted to those less fortunate than most of us who do have insurance. They will be able to afford the care that they need. But, that would be too perfect, and only something we can hope for in the near future.
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Medical care is an issue that is directly connect to a number of other modern social issues including, the War on Terror, our nation’s economic situation, and of course illegal immigration. While the stories of Americans receiving generous health care in foreign nations are likely true, the choice to do so is up to that nation. In the United States we have specific laws concerning illegal immigrants. Everyone is responsible for paying for their medical expenses, whether it is money out of their pocket, or through an insurance provider. And for those who can afford neither there are government programs in place to assist them. But these options are available for U.S. citizens, establish and paid for with taxpayer’s money.
When someone “lives” in this country without establishing or declaring permanent residence legally they take advantage of privileges given to true U.S. citizens, including healthcare. But our nation was built upon certain values and the right to life is one of them. So American hospitals would not turn away an immigrant in dire need of care, nor should they, but the fact that he or she is treated at our expense is not appropriate. The individuals country of origin or the individual themselves needs to take responsibility.
The argument against this claim is that other countries would treat an American as well as one of their own, and not ask for anything in return. However, no diplomatic agreements have been written up to solidify a nation’s responsibilities when in such a situation, so each country is free to decide how it handles said situation. Regardless of how hospitals in Mexico, Ireland, or Canada would treat Americans, we are not subject to their laws concerning these types of situations.
Perhaps I am pointing a figure at other nations, who may criticize our nation’s actions against immigrants, but despite the fact that three fingers are pointing back at me we have a right to hold fast to our beliefs. We believe that the rights of Americans are to be defended by our government, and that those rights are reserved for us. This is fundamental as well as fair. So with this outlook, illegal immigrants should not be provided with the care we are blessed with. But another mission of the United States is to spread our values around the world and hope that we may spread our manner of existence through those values. We all want to see the rest of the world enjoy the same standards of living that we do, but that isn’t a goal to be accomplished over night. Our actions against illegal immigrants are in an effort to maintain our own stability, not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world, but instead to be sure of our own security enough so that we may begin to help the rest of the world grow to stand besides us.
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I have always been accepting towards illegal immigration. While I agree that it is not right that these aliens get away with not paying their taxes, there is nothing that we will ever be able to do to stop it. People always find a way around things and with developing technology, it is only going to become easier. Furthermore, illegal immigration is usually a hot topic in political debates and especially in presidential debates. Republican candidates often vow to eradicate all aliens or at least try and promise to tighten the border control. What we all have to realize is that since the beginning of time, countries and people have all changed. Whether we tighten our border control or not, people from other countries will eventually become the majority and the entire process will restart. So why bother?
When it comes to medical treatment, I do not care if you belong in this country or not, you deserve to be treated. What makes a person from the United States more worthy of living than someone from Mexico? I understand that our tax dollars are going towards someone who does not return the favor, but that does not mean that he deserves to die. Medicare has become so expensive that the illegal immigrants are looking like the smart ones. Who wants to pay one hundred thousand dollars for surgery? I know that if I could find a way around the system then I would definitely take advantage of it. It is not right for people to pay so much money just to become healthy again.
I love how people in the United States act like other countries would not be this generous towards us if there were illegal Americans living in their country. When Sam told us the story about about his swollen ankle and the treatment that he received, I don’t remember him mentioning how unfairly he was treated for not belonging to that country or how the doctor complained that Sam does not pay taxes in his country. When it comes to medical treatment, we Americans care more about our own money than what is the right thing to do. But that is what privatized health care does to you. Hospitals spike up medical bills and we choose to look after our own asses or get stuck living in the streets.
It is time for us to drop all the illegal immigration talk. While I do not think that we should simply let anyone live in this country, we should not make the others who are already living here face repercussions. It is our fault from the beginning to not keep a better watch of people sneaking in, so leave them alone.
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One thing that I do agree with in the video is that it is ridiculous for the hospital to have to pay for the return expenses to send the patient back to his or her country. It seems crazy that after treating a patient who is not a United States citizen that the hospital then needs to reach into their own pocket to send him out of the country. But this also brings up a different point: is an illegal alien showing up at a hospital a good enough reason to ship him or her back to his or her home country? The Guatemalan man she speaks of in the video clearly has a family and ties in the United States, and he would probably be a citizen if he could be. Honestly, I am a proponent for immigration and even some illegal immigration. I am not suggesting that we should open the gates and let everyone flood in, but immigration is keeping our economy going and pushing prices down. I live next to a town that is known as “The Mushroom Capital of the World,” because of the large amount of mushroom farms there. The workers on these farms are largely Hispanic men, legal and illegal. They are doing grungy work that pretty much no American worker would do and at a low wage. I do not believe that these workers should be receiving such a low wage for the hard and smelly work that they do, but that is the way things are right now. Without these immigrants, the mushroom farming in our area would cease to exist. Mushroom farming is not the only industry that survives on immigrant workers.
So in a country where so many industries are relying on immigrant workers, how can people like the woman in the video think that these people do not deserve healthcare. I totally agree with Sam’s point about citizens of the United States who are abroad. Imagine being abroad and being treated like shit when you walked into a hospital in need of dialysis just because the hospital administrators are tired of treating foreigners. These hospitals should not have to pay millions of dollars to support people, but it is also their responsibility to help people in need. I do not think that I am necessarily an advocate for national healthcare because operations and such that are not deemed entirely necessary have a ridiculous waiting period (and just because something is not thought of as absolutely necessary does not mean that it is not strongly recommended). Still, everyone in the world should feel like they can travel to another country and be taken care of at the local hospitals if a health situation arises. Let’s all listen to our moral self-conscious and remember the value of human life; think of these illegal immigrants as our family members—what would you do?
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Healthcare is an issue that is completely out of control in this nation. As Dr. Richards stated, some of the costs are astronomically high in comparison to the treatments. Thus, having insured is something that most people strive to obtain in order to protect themselves and their family, and for good reason. So why should we allow people to come into our nation illegally, and utilize our hospitals and clinics for free when plenty of people from America have minimal to no coverage at all? The answer is simple, it should not happen. The only way to completely stop it is to refuse any and all patients looking for treatment that are undocumented citizens. However, doing that is not fair in all circumstances either. If a child is being born, why should they suffer because they did not have proper medical care as a newborn, when they have done nothing wrong? Of course there would have to be lines drawn, and of course these lines would be confusing and sometimes based on the judgment of the doctor, but it would still cut back on plenty of undocumented patients looking for a quick fix at no cost to them. And why waste money returning them to their country of origin? If they want to return they will, and if they just wanted to be here for the medical treatment, we handed their hopes and dreams right to them. As far as Americans retrieving medical attention in other nations, I do not think that is right either. Even in countries where the government provides healthcare to everyone, like Germany and Belgium, it is not right. The citizens of the country should not have to pay for the healthcare of residing Americans just because they are in the country. It is the responsibility of individuals in the United States to obtain healthcare, and it can only be done as a documented individual. So in order to be given the medical attention and treatment of a United States citizen, one should have to legally be in the United States. Although it may seem unfair at first, if it is the same worldwide, then it will not be as big of a problem. There should be no medical treatment to undocumented individuals in any nation unless it falls under a given category, like childbirth or an extreme medical emergency. It just does not make sense why a nation that cannot even have affordable healthcare for all of its citizens would treat patients that they know will not pay the charges for their care, and to top it all off pay for the return trip home. We may be the “world power”, but maybe we should think about fixing our own problems before worrying about everyone else’s. After all, we can’t be expected to help everyone.
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Healthcare is a topic that most people greatly dislike talking about. Healthcare is an issue that plagues thousands of Americans. With the incredible costs, many people are incapable of affording adequate healthcare or any healthcare at all. Therefore it is understandable that so many people are upset when they find out that people in the United States illegally are not only getting healthcare but then they are also getting away with not having to pay for it. For instance in the video, the woman stated that one patient cost the hospital over a million dollars and on top of that, the Hospital then sent the man back to Guatemala….and they paid for the return trip. While it didn’t work out totally for the man as he was sent back, he did in fact receive free medical treatment. No this does not seem fair and yes it is normal for people who can not afford healthcare we also have to consider what other option does the hospital. Well, there is the obvious answer. They can turn the hurt patient away. An option yes, a moral option…no. some people probably would disagree, as they believe that it is unjust, and that they should get health care from their country origin. But it seems to me, heartless, cruel and wrong to turn a person away, whether they are illegal aliens or not. A hospital could NOT turn away a hurt patient. It is a good point to think about it from a different perspective. If an American was in a foreign country and needed medical attention, we would hope that they would get the care needed. While I believe that the right thing to do is to help the immigrants, I also feel that it is wrong for the Hospital in which the patient was treated to have to pay for the treatment. There has to be a better way to help people, get them the treatment they need, and have a much more fair system of payment that does not end up sending either the patient or the hospital to jail. I do not think that this would be an easy feat, but I agree with the idea that there is something else that could be done. I agree with the person that said that it maybe a beneficial option to have the country where the immigrant came from, informed of the patients needs and then have that government pay for the care. This issue puts strain on the fragile economic situation in the United States. The decision on how to handle the situation is one that needs to be considered with a lot of care. It is not just an economic issue, but also a humanitarian issue .
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We all know that healthcare in the United States sucks. It’s either too expensive or they don’t do a well enough job. It just sucks. The numbers don’t lie. We all know that healthcare is expensive and that’s why a lot of Americans don’t have it. I don’t even know if I have it or not. I’ve been blessed enough to have never been a serious accident or situation that would really be a burden to my family except when I was just a young lad and I was born bowlegged and piggot-toed and I had to wear cast on my legs but other than that the good Lord has kept me as a healthy, black man. I personally believe that for the majority of my life, Medicare and Medicaid has been catered toward the rich and wealthy. Time and time again we’ve heard about people with no money being unable to pay for some sort of operation because of the way or countries rules are set up. Some time ago I watched the documentary “Bowling for Columbine” and in it director and documentarian Michael Moore speaks on health care. He went to Canada, the big country not that far from the US. You know, you can see it from Detroit. Now check this out, while in Canada Moore discovered a few things. One, he found out that little no people lock their doors. It doesn’t cross their mind to do it. I’m not saying the whole country does it but he proved this by randomly walking up to homes and right through the front door. Secondly, their guns deaths along with a lot of major countries compared to the US are ridiculously low. One guy said that Canada is just not as violent as the US. Lastly, he asked another man about health care in Canada. The man said that his daughter was involved in a car accident and he paid nothing, absolutely nothing. An interesting not is that Canada’s poverty rate is higher than that of the US. That’s just astounding. Canada has more poor people than us and yet they can pay for their citizens when they get sick. Now is it me, but what in the hell are we doing wrong. Do we just not care about our people? In a country where we have new immigrants looking to build a better life for themselves, what are they going to do when they see that hey, we get sick, we may die, ‘cause we broke. There are a ton of illegal immigrants in this country right now looking for a better life. There have been times when us foreigners have gone to other countries and have gotten sick and the locals have said go see Raul or Zhi and the next thing you know, you’re better and you’ve paid little to no money. All I’m saying is what other countries are doing that we aren’t.
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This video from Florida is misleading. I understand the plight of the hospital administrator, but she seems to only show part of the picture. She also implies, probably unintentionally, that all illegal immigrants skip out on their bills. That is how I took her speech, and it is a bogus claim. Not having a social security number does not give someone a free ride.
Millions of Americans are walking around with debt as well (as evidenced by our economic crisis), and the cost of healthcare does not help. If Americans were not able to secure loans, they would not be able to pay healthcare costs. As Americans are not able to pay back their loans now, they are, in effect, not paying back their healthcare bills. Running out on bills is not an activity invented by illegal immigrants.
The hospital administrator said that she had reported the illegal immigrants and the government said that there was nothing that they could do because the individuals had not broken any crimes. Um. Yes, they had? She could not have been referring to individuals who had left the hospital without paying because that is a crime. As for patients in comas who are unable to pay bills, why would she possibly report them? That is cruel.
Also, why does it cost $30,000 to deport a patient to Guatemala? I understand that he was not flying coach, and most likely returned in a bed, but seriously – $30,000? And why does it cost well over $1 million a year per patient? That is the problem. Illegal immigrants running out on their bills are not raising insurance prices – insurance companies, drug companies, and hospitals are raising prices. I have spent weeks of my life in hospitals, and they do not deserve the thousands that they receive. I spent 13 days in August 2006, and walked away with an $80,000 bill (after what my insurance covered). I barely even saw the doctors!
I have worked with illegal immigrants before (not that I thought of them in that context). I know individuals who refused to go to the hospital in dire situations for fear of deportation. Others have paid doctors in cash or with legal relatives’ credit cards to avoid troubles or scrutiny. Never has anyone I’ve known walked in and out of a hospital without paying a bill. They are contributing members of this society. If our government were willing to recognize them, offer them a legal place here, which comes with the obligation to pay taxes, they would all take it.
There are homeless people on the streets near where I live in New York. As most are mentally disabled, I cannot say (or even guess) if they have ever paid taxes, and yet the City picks them up regularly in the winter. We take care of the tired, the poor, the huddled masses, or at least I thought we did. Many people come to the United States because we have a better quality of life. Our country grants amnesty to those whose lives will be threatened if they return home. If we return individuals who are deathly ill home, knowing that we are sending them to their deaths, is this not against everything our country stands?
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I never know what to say to these blogs because I don’t know how people can act this way. It really deeply appalls me. Even before hearing Professor Richards say it I used the same argument, our ancestor’s came the same way immigrants are coming. Having his class has just helped me see that not everyone is completely ignorant, but it is still wide spread. He is one of the few professors I have had who wasn’t afraid to address uncomfortable issues. I feel that everyone at Penn State should be required to take his course, because maybe if these issues have to be faced and discussed that people would start to be accepting.
Discrimination bothers me in all ways, shapes, and forms. But the recent up-rise in anti-immigrant issues adding to all the other issues at times put me into a real depressive funk. I think I say it repeatedly, but how do people get to be that way? Last semester I student taught in North Philadelphia in an area that was 94% Puerto Rican. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and they are still discriminated against. But when I was working with these kids I couldn’t help but think that they potentially face that discrimination every day. Kids don’t see color, and they probably don’t get why they are not always treated equal. And then we wonder why they become bitter.
On the idea of health care Professor Richards made a good point. The unawareness of the things he mentioned clearly shows the ethnocentrism going on in America. But it isn’t at all surprising that here in America we have more problems with who is getting paid than who is getting saved. Other countries are very accepting of Americans. It is quite a sickening reality that the hopes of America are accompanied by degrading remarks, belittling treatment, and incredible amounts of disrespect.
I am glad that we at least have classes now that talk about these issues. And with every new person who is willing to say something small steps are being taken. But I am very impatient when it comes to small steps that involve inequality. The basic human right of respect is constantly violated. And it begs me to question again where it all comes from. Are the strings of determinism what make racists racists? Is there some evil mind set that some of us are just lucky to be without? I know that starting with our children can help, but what about those being discriminated against now? How can we force people to just stop and think?
What bugs me even more is when religious people who preach that everyone is equal in the eyes of their “god” discriminate. How can someone claim to be holy on Sunday, but refuse to be accepting every other day of the week? Quite the hypocrisy.
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Most of us know a little about the horrible situation going on in United States when it comes to health care. I can guess that many of us know a United States citizen who can only go to the doctor when they are in critical need of services. Before I go any farther I have to admit I have not paid much attention to the ongoing health care problem because I have not had to pay for it myself, so my views might me a tad bit naive. After seeing the video on the blog my first initial emotion was anger. I was mad that our tax dollars are going to an illegal immigrant’s 1.5 million dollar bill. Then the video mentioned that the immigrant just got deported and do not have to worry about any bill or any other consequence. There are people in the United States who get turned away everyday because they can’t afford medical treatment so why should these illegal immigrants be any different? But then I have to take Sam’s points into consideration, he mentioned that Americans do not get turned away from hospitals in other countries when they are in need. We talk a lot in class about how white privilege goes unseen but now I am starting to see that there is this “American privilege” that many of us do not notice. We as the United States feel like we need to be giving some kind of award for the things we do. When in reality if I go to London and get sick they are going to take care of me just like the United States is doing for their illegal immigrants. America in my point of view is really greedy, why should we be arguing about illegal immigrants when Americans do the same thing in other places around the world. This issue can be looked at from many angles which is why it is so hard to solve. American health care is so expensive I do not understand how any one pays for it. I can understand why people are irritated with these situations arise but that doesn’t help cause. I am not going to sit here and write about a solution the health care problem because in all honest like I said earlier I really know nothing about it. I just feel like we need to get off our high horse and realize that America is not the only country dealing with this issue. We have to put ourselves in the immigrant’s shoes. How would you feel if you were sick and in the hospital for over two years and all the doctors were only worried about sending you back to America? It all comes down to this question, when do we stop doing the right thing and start worrying about society’s economic needs.
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For the purpose of this blog, I have chosen to discuss the issue of immigrants For years, illegal immigration has always been a controversial topic among many Americans. Many people believe that illegal immigrants should not have the same rights that American citizens have, but in a world and a country that was based on immigration is this really what our country has come to? While I agree with the saying “nothing comes easy,” and everyone should have to live up to the standards that every other American has to live up to, I still feel remorse for illegal immigrants. My parents work really hard for me to live in this country and I feel that everyone should have to work equally as hard. I do not believe that just because someone does not have a good life in their own country, that they should have the right to come to ours and be entitled to a free ride. I think everyone should have to work for the rights that they are granted in our country and that if people are offered a free ride it will make people not work as hard for what they want in their lives. But as I stated earlier, we are a country built upon the lives of immigrants, and my grandparents were immigrants and if they were not allowed to come to this country I would probably not be where I am today. We are a country of dreams, and we allow people to be able to live those dreams and if we do not let immigrants in to the United States, are we taking the dreams away from these people that could be the future of our country? As much as I disagree with people getting a free ride I have to believe in my heart that these people come here for a reason because they are in need of something better then the life they are living already. I understand why this is such a controversial topic because money and living standards are so crucial to society. But hospitals in general take an oath to care for anyone no matter of who they are or if they are even a citizen. I understand that illegal immigrants are a matter of security and possibly should not be here but we are a country that takes care of people and makes lives better for people. I question that if we can’t give care to immigrants then should we really be a country of dreams. I love this country and I am happy that I am given the opportunity to live here, but I want immigrants to have the same opportunities that my grandparents have, that enabled me to have a great life.
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The health care system in the United States is crazy, it always seems like something is going wrong. So many people do not have health insurance but you can not turn people away from things like that. You have to take care of everyone; you can not turn anyone away because they can not pay.
I have an aunt who is from India and she thought she would cheat the system and get all of her health care for free but she couldn’t, but when her father came to visit but got sick, he did not pay for anything. He got sick while here about 4 months before his visa was up and was sick until he had to go back. They allowed him to stay until he got better but then once he was better they sent him back. I do not know if they made him pay for the flight back or if they paid for him to go back but I know that he did not pay for any of his health care costs. Now I am not a big fan of my aunt but when she went around ranting and raving about how it was great that he got taken care of for free, it really rubbed me the wrong way. My parents were especially mad because they knew that they were paying for his care in the long run. I just think that it is wrong that things like this happen and no one does anything about it. I know that my aunt has still to this day not paid for any of her father’s care; I know that we have to care for everyone because it would be wrong to turn someone away but we should at least get a name so we can come to them for the money in the end. I would hope that paying for the flight would not happen but I guess illegal immigrants have to get taken out of the United States some how. Then again I would hope that if I was in the same situation, meaning I am living somewhere else that they would not deny me care of any sort.
But we also have to remember the massive amount of Americans who are uninsured and working the healthcare system for all it’s got. I mean it still does get me mad like the story of my aunt’s father does but it always seems different when we are talking about Americans, it just seems different, but we are all people so it should not matter. Like was said at the end of the blog you point one finger only to have three more pointing back at you, it is one of those touchy subjects that everyone is heated about, but they would never want to be the one not getting cared for because they can not afford it.
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healthcare is a big issue in today’s american society. it is a platform that politicians use constantly everyone has their own idea on how to get everyone covered and to lower the cost. even though there are so many people with ideas and suggestion nothing really gets done. Another popular platform is illegal immigration. what is really the humane way of dealing with this problem? Do we just kick them all out? Is that even realistically possible? this video addresses both of these. A good point that was brought up was that americans living in other countries get taken care of at the expense of the country. Good faith is shown to americans all over the world. getting a procedure done like an appendix removed which would cost a good chunk of change in america just for some blood. Because they need good clean blood more than your money. I think it was noble of the hospital to care for the illegal aliens that it encounters. i would be more enraged if they turned them away at the door. WHo cares if i have to spend a few more dollars, a person is still a person no matter what country they come from and should be treated as such. Now don’t get me wrong i do think that they way some of these people are taking advantage of these hospitals and of this country is wrong. but what can we really do? i mean truly most of them come here out of desperation not to take advantage. I see no easy way out. I think that any solution will cause pain and suffering for some one. We have it good here in the us and sometimes i think we forget that. we are so absorbed in our own problem and situations that we forget that there is a world out there that has much bigger problems than we do. they are desperately in need of help and we are whining about the cost of healthcare ( which is ridiculus but not the point). How frequent are these illegal aliens in our hospitals? i don’t think we should be getting overly upset and angry. Yes it is a problem and yes it needs to stop but what will getting angry and having hatred toward these desperate people accomplish? Is there already enough anger and hostility in this country isn’t that what feeds racism?
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First of all, this is not news to me. Being immigrant myself, I have heard this not from news but from personal friends and family. I am very split on this issue. First of all, I know this men that is an illegal immigrant, and while he is working he accidentally cut his tendon in his hand open. Therefore, he needed immediate medial treatment. So he went to the emergency room, and had surgery. But he put down a name, address, and personal information so the hospital is unable to contact him. One way, he did need medical attention, if he did not, his hand would be gone. And he would be unable to work and support his family. But on the other hand, like the video, we the taxpayers, pay for all of this, and we are the one that has to bear the responsibility of their actions. For this medical case, I do agree with the fact that people that need immediate medical attention should be treated regardless of what they are. If someone is having a heart attack, you are not going to say, they are an illegal immigrant so we are just going to let them die. But when someone comes here for a long term treatment, the hospital should not have the responsibility to treat them. We saw in the video, that the hospital try to send them back to their home country, and they refuse to take them. The first thing we really need to do is let their home country take them back and offer adequate treatment.
The second of part of this problem is illegal and legal immigration. Of course, it is an ongoing debate between in this country. Some say that illegal beneficial, but I know one thing, illegal immigration is hurting not only the normal United States citizen, but also legal immigrants. First of all, legal immigrants’ are not even heard. We hear on TV that the problems of illegal immigrants and their problem. But we never hear the problem of legal immigrates, like how the fact that it takes longer for legal immigrants to get their citizenship than illegal immigrants. How legal immigrants pay for taxes and they are categorized the same and treated the same as illegal immigrants. It is like what we talked about in class, that African immigrants are one of the smartest and richest people around. Because they are immigrants and they are one of the best in their country. So they are different and it is really unfair to put them together. So in the end, I think that it is a very difficult decision because it involves both moral, ethical and economical part of our future policy.
Hongyun Wang
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I feel that it does not matter if American citizens get free or discounted medical treatment in foreign countries if they are suddenly stricken ill, because it still doesn’t excuse those from other countries, i.e. illegal aliens, who come here and take advantage of our health care system by being treated by our hospitals and evade making payments for the care they received. Keep in mind that our health system is taken advantage enough by women who rush across our borders to have babies so their child will be covered under our benefit programs like Medicaid, and because of that, I don’t feel like American citizens should feel obligated to return any favors that other countries may do for us if we just so happen to need medical treatment while on vacation. No one is forcing those other countries to provide free care to our citizens. In my opinion, illegal immigrants get away with enough shit while they are here in the United States as it is; we shouldn’t be turning a blind eye to them taking advantage of our hospitals and leaving the country the first chance they get so they can evade paying the bills. Dr. Richards uses the example of having to donate a pint of blood in Mexico in exchange for an appendectomy procedure he had performed there; however, the woman in the YouTube video is describing cases where illegal immigrants had hospital stays amounting to over 100 days. Let’s compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. These illegal aliens are costing our citizens, our insurers, and our hospitals hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars, by not paying for their treatment. If I were in a foreign country and needed medical treatment, I wouldn’t care whether or not I had to pay for it if I really needed it. I would know that I would never want people from other countries coming to the United States taking advantage of my health system and forcing me to cover their bills, so I would happily pay my own bills if I just so happened to need care while I was abroad. In the United States, we also have state of the art medical equipment and technology, and I highly doubt that medical expenses in countries abroad are even comparable to those in the United States. Which leads me to my next point: We should turn a blind eye to illegal aliens seeking free care in the U.S., while so many of our own citizens have absolutely no insurance, and when they do need care, they are stuck with astronomical amounts of medical expenses? I don’t think so. Just because other countries may provide free or discounted care to our citizens abroad, doesn’t mean that the United States has to do the same.
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I don’t really even worry about health care and all I just personally worry about what affects me and what affects my family and friends. I want all people to be alright and treated fair and all, but when I see that there are illegal immigrant it makes me think about my grandmother not have enough money to pay her bill. This is a free ride that these illegal immigrants are getting, so I feel like it isn’t fair. With that being said I don’t agree with a lot of things going on with politics and although they are getting a free rides I still feel like there has been a time where we have had a chance to get some money where weall could have insurance but at the same time the money never eeeever got to the lower class. The money is always in the hands of the upper class. You don’t see them complaining. We actually still see them complaining, but I think in these cases some people in the lower class has given up hope or just don’t care or are even not surprised. I think I can say we should have universal health care like other countries, but I have a feeling it’s not going to happen in my lifetime, so I just think it is best to put my family first and care for them more than I care for others. I’m not trying to say that I don’t care for others but for me to put the priorities of other before I put them before my family would be damn near crazy. I think what I also take into consideration is the fact that for me to be mad about this situation I would have to be mad about a lot more situations that they possibly don’t talk about. They talk about losing out on a million dollars, but if they did have the millions of dollars I feel as though the money wouldn’t go anywhere productive anyway. I mean they are honestly talking about how they helped someone for free. How can you really complain about helping someone for free? I feel like they are just complaining just because they are tired of helping people for free. I find that there is a lot of complaining from these hospitals, but what about those hospitals in poor areas whose rooms are filled, and make you wait for hours to fix the major problems. What do you do when the people that work at this hospital don’t take their jobs seriously and the medical equipment is out of date. While this lady is sitting here talking about their problems I just couldn’t get over the fact that even if the problems are fixed they could potentially BE the problem.
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I think above all things; the key word of this entire discussion/argument is the term “illegal”. An illegal immigrant, regardless of the reason they came, is still illegal. For example, I am not cold or numb to the fact that the reason they came here was better opportunity. I respect and embrace people who do anything for the betterment of themselves or their families. However, the fact stands that these people are leaching off taxpayers hard earned money and using it for healthcare, which eventually becomes free. This however, is not such a cut and dry case. For example, the story which Sam told about how he was in Mexico and suddenly became in need of medical care. If I was in a foreign country and God forbid I came down with an illness, I would be livid and feel betrayed if they refused me care because I am not a citizen of the country. This type of argument can make people seem very cold, because while I would never want someone to be in pain, and not receive help, but at the same time health care costs are through the roof. We can’t possibly expect reform or lower costs if there are people bleeding out our system with no plans or intentions to pay into it. Now, the one argument was that U.S citizens do the same things everyday in foreign countries. However, foreign healthcare costs are nowhere in the ballpark of that which is in the United States. So, to think that the premiums and costs are due because of immigration seems almost silly. So the question stands : what exactly is the cause for these huge costs? I wish I had the answer, because it seems that these over-inflated costs are symptoms are a bigger problem than something like immigration. Now, don’t get me wrong, any time a business gives away “free” services, they are going to lose money and it will be detrimental to the business. But I feel that something like immigration may be a scapegoat for a bigger issue, just because it is always easier to blame immigrants because they are easily identifiable. I think in the future, especially with Obama’s campaign to reform healthcare, we will hopefully uncover some of these issues which have been hidden from major corporations, and figure out ways to deal with them accordingly. The video provided, while it could possibly be an isolated issue, still makes me angry because I, while I am democratic, I don’t believe in giving our free rides to anyone. I feel you should earn the right to healthcare, because it is not a right, but a privilege. So hopefully, with Obama’s change campaign he can find the issues most important and work on making healthcare more accessible, not just trying to give out something, because it almost seems unrealistic to provide universal healthcare, in our system currently.
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This isn’t an issue of illegal immigration; it’s an issue of a terribly flawed healthcare system. America’s healthcare is overpriced to say the least. We pay taxes for healthcare, and then we pay a huge bill when we actually receive it. Way back to last semester when I was taking microeconomics we watched a video about healthcare systems in several different countries. Every country had “provided” healthcare by the government except for the United States. By provided I mean they paid taxes, but didn’t receive bills. Here in America we are heavily taxing every citizen and heavily charging every citizen, and then we have ethic issues where illegal immigrants can afford more healthcare than legal citizens. In the cases stated in the YouTube video, if those illegal patients would have been citizens, I’m sure the plugs would be pulled. I know illegal immigrants fuel our economy in some way, but are they doing more harm than good if they are avoiding taxes and receiving taxpayer benefits? When a new baby is being born a family pays a huge fee to have the procedure done. I wasn’t paid off until I was 14 years old. On this bill is a list of the entire healthcare received. In this list is a fee to help the hospital afford the costs of illegal immigrant births. It isn’t one of those things where you can choose to donate a dollar to a charity; it’s a charge for healthcare someone else is receiving. It’s almost like robbery in broad daylight. Is it wrong to turn down a patient in need? No one wants to answer that question. Either you are robbing American citizens and hospitals and unfairly benefitting illegal immigrants or you are leaving human beings on the street to die.
No hospital wants to have someone die in front of their building and watch it get publicized in the news and then get sued lose all of their money and be hated by their entire country. Instead they hand out healthcare for free and absorb the costs. It hurts their profits as well it is unfair to every legal citizen. Probably the best way to solve the problem is for countries to take responsibility for their own citizens. But another issue is that America isn’t responsible for theirs and doesn’t need to be. In other countries they don’t care if an American reaps their health benefits. Hospitals aren’t concerned with profits because they are government funded and need to provide good healthcare or else they will be shut down. Doctors in other countries need to be good at what they do to keep their job because of government checkups. There is a shortage of doctors in America and all of them are paid very well. Unfortunately their job isn’t usually is jeopardy so they just go ahead make millions regardless. Here we have doctors making millions in income and illegal immigrants receiving free healthcare. Now that’s American.
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To start I would like to say that last semester I took a course call HPA 101 which focuses on health care issues in the United States and other countries. Health care in the United States is a major issue that mainly focuses on high costs, low access, and low quality care when someone has bad insurance or even no insurance. Dr. Richards basically says that people should not be turned away from hospitals and these hospitals should suck it up and help people out (cure them and move on to the next). While this happens every day everywhere throughout the United States is not a reason it should continue. If this continues and the attitude towards this improves and people like Dr. Richards support these instances, health care will only become more and more unobtainable. While he makes a great point that hospitals over charge for resources he seems to forget that these costs are elevated partly because of illegal immigrants and uninsured United States citizens. While a bag of ice costs $20 in a hospital, this cost is not because ice is an expensive resource, it costs this much because of the time a nurse must spend attending to the patient when he/she could be doing something more productive like dressing a wound or saving a life. This high cost of the ice is also because of many previous people taking advantage of the hospital, and in order to recover these losses the hospital must take advantage of the paying customers. (One thing I would like to know, not to go on a tangent, but did Dr. Richards pay for his emergency appendectomy or did he just donate the blood?) So to return to my primary argument, how can you blame hospitals for wanting to profit from their efforts. If these were nonprofit organizations I would agree that they should not be trying to get these lucrative bills paid, but they are not this, they are looking to make a profit, peoples salaries must be paid and these people deserves these salaries. And to touch on the subject about United States citizens that are currently living in foreign countries without health care, they are just as bad as anyone else looking for a free hand out, they deserve to be turned away. You know when I think about it Dr. Richards has stated on numerous occasions that he is not one to give free handouts and listen to peoples ‘sad’ stories. So why are we not hearing him tell us that these illegal immigrants and noninsured United States citizens need to get off their behinds and make a difference in their life, because isn’t that what we need in order to make a difference in the health care system.
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While I think that when it comes to American’s taxes this situation could be frustrating. And that is completely understandable. But truthfully, I think Americans are always so quick to point fingers at other people but aren’t even able to acknowledge the situations in which they have done similar things. The story of Sam in Mexico City is just one example of an American being able to get medical attention without having to pay. The Mexican doctors, whose main job remember is to help people medically, did the right thing in recognizing that Sam was from a different country and kindly asking for a pint of blood. It almost sounds ridiculous to Americans that this was the only thing asked, but its because of the significance that has been placed on things in American society. I think that society today, particularly in America, has become so consumed with profit and money that people often forget the real reasons for why we should be doing things. When I was abroad in Rome, Italy I remember a girl that attended the University I went to had to go to the hospital because of too much. She was very sick and needed her stomach pumped, stayed overnight and just really a dangerous situation for her. Even in Rome, she didn’t’ have any problems with having to pay. It really surprised me because of the basic fact that she is a young American girl coming into a country which really finds getting drunk to be very disrespectful. She comes into their hospital from drinking an obscene amount and she is still given the proper medical attention without any pressure to pay for their help. And here in America we have immigrants, who not all but many pay respect to the country and work hard supporting many businesses in this country and are pressured to pay or even sent back to their country because of medical issues. I understand that it really depends on the person and their situation but there has to be particular cases out there where illegal immigrants that show a lot more respect and have a lot more serious medical issues than my friend in Rome are denied the proper medical attention or are released for not being able to pay. I think some people might not disagree with me or feel that I am just being way to lenient towards illegal immigrants here, but I also think a lot of Americans don’t’ know many illegal immigrants here and immediately have narrow perceptions of them. My dad has a few illegal immigrants from Ecuador that work for him. And to be honest, I have gained respect for them and I think because of this I can understand how they live here. I know how their lives are here and because of that I think I tend to be on their side when it comes to issues such as this one. Unfortunately I think many Americans do not and immediately put that wall up, because it is dealing with people that they cannot relate to or understand.
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First of all, I would just like to say that if what this woman is saying is true, it is absolutely outrageous to allow this to happen. I mean, I agree with what Sam is saying when he says that Americans get free healthcare in other countries, but 1.5 million dollars is ludicrous. You would think that someone would have tried to do something a little sooner, before he racked up over a mil in hospital bills. How could someone at this hospital allow this to go on for so long? This woman says she tried to contact the authorities, but how could someone ignore the obscene amount of free healthcare this man was receiving. I know if I was someone who was contacted about this incident, I would have had him on the first flight back to Guatemala. Allowing someone to get much needed surgery while they are here is one thing, but to continually allow an illegal immigrant to leach on to our healthcare system for free is completely different. And the fact that this guy is trying to sue the hospital for flying him back to Guatemala is unheard of. He knows he is an illegal immigrant, and he knows he shouldn’t be in this country, so what argument could he possibly have? Wasn’t the 1.5 million dollars in healthcare enough to satisfy this guy?
Anyway, I guess the point I’m getting at is that this sort of situation shouldn’t be allowed to happen. The problem with healthcare is bad enough, the last thing we need is illegal immigrants getting it for free and driving up the costs for taxpaying citizens. America also needs to fix the problem with immigration. Too many illegal immigrants are coming into this country, not paying taxes, and sending the money they make back home to their families. I’m glad that their families are being fed from their hard work, but many families in America who are legal taxpaying citizens are starving at the same time. The problem for the future is that we have a democratic president in office right now, and he will most likely be more compelled to loosen up our borders than Bush was in the last 8 years. With the economy being so poor right now, the last thing we need is to let the immigration problem grow larger.
Although I do understand where Sam is coming from when he said that we should keep this in context, and that Americans who spend time in other countries are medically treated for free, there is no way that this situation occurs to this magnitude from Americans in other countries. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming that, but it just seems a little unreasonable to believe.
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Healthcare is one of our biggest issues today, one of the issues we have no control over. The only ways we can stop this issue is by not seeing undocumented citizens and see those that are U.S citizens who are in a real bad condition and need the healthcare. Either way you put it its not a fair procedure, someone is going to feel as if this country is not as “free” as some say it to be. I believe it right to help immigrants because most of them don’t have health care and are in need of health care from the United States but I don’t feel as if it is right that we are paying our tax dollars and these immigrants are coming into the States and then they cant afford the treatment that they are given. I do want everyone to be treated fairly and taking very good care of whether they are illegal immigrants or United State Citizens, we are all human beings and we didn’t chose to be born a certain place. We have to live with what we have and some people don’t have a lot. So we should want to help them. Yes it is a crime for them to come to the hospitals here and not pay but there is people in the United States that do the same thing. Hopefully Barack Obama will change this problem and fix this healthcare issue. Having this man in the hospital from Mexico with brain damage and now his bill is 1.5 million dollars, which is ridiculous. I think that someone should have noticed this way before, noticed he didn’t have any friends or family to help him pay the bill, that is when they should have contacted Mexico and asked for some help. Not when the money becomes a ridiculous number and now no one is trying to help pay for it. Nowadays people are getting things for free all the time, and it’s not a big deal, but since its illegal immigrants it’s a big deal. If people from here is going to the other countries and getting medically treatment for free why can’t we do the same and give their citizens treatment for free, especially to the ones that really need it. People are just selfish and stingy and do not want to help the needy people. This whole thing to me is bogus and I can’t believe it’s this bad. But either way you put it its going to be wrong but it’s helping people and if you have the money why not spend it instead of letting it go to waste on something we don’t need. But it is unfair and we need to try and fix the problem but being racist and discriminating against people will not help the problem.
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First and foremost, let me start by saying that I love this country. Now, my follow-up statement, this country is made up of about 75% hypocrites. What I mean by this is, we expect everyone to bend over backwards for us, but we rarely go that extra mile unless there is something immediate in it that we need/want.
Our healthcare system is not in good shape, the last I checked we were rated in the 30’s in comparison to every country in the world. That’s ridiculous that a country like our own can be that far down, how do we expect to excel as a country if we can’t take care of our own sick? I was without insurance for three years now, and I’m 22. When I dropped out of college originally, my parents’ insurance stopped covering me since I was over 18 and no longer in school, then when I decided to go back, they originally told us that there was a clause that said something about after a break during college, that’s it, they won’t take you back. Anyway, long story short, it’s tough to afford insurance, luckily I never got very sick or injured, or my parents would have been paying a good bit. Luckily I have parents that would pay for it, but many people without insurance do not have that luxury to fall back on.
Sam’s experience is how more of the world needs to treat others, with some compassion. Sometimes we just need to act in the favor of our fellow man. Yes, we will all be paying a bit more in terms of taxes, but it’s not going to add up to what everyone thinks it will. Plus, with the plan as it’s going now, if you’ve got health insurance that you like, and want to keep; you are free to.
I just do not see how any American, or human for that matter, could say no to someone deathly ill or dying, just because that cannot afford to be treated. That seems to contradict everything that I thought we stood for, what we fought for. I guess what it all comes down to with me, is that I basically think that we all need to have a bit more compassion for our brothers and sisters regardless, and I think this world would run a whole lot smoother. I know I’m naïve, but I’m alright with that. I’d rather think that there is still a hope for the world as a whole, you have to, and otherwise, you’ve already given up on a better place. I’ve gotten far off track, I just think that we need to make changes in order to help people better.
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Although Sam has made a good point about the Americans using the hospitals in other countries but I am not worried about other countries. I am worried about the healthcare system in the USA. Yes, this may sound a little bit selfish but if they want to run their healthcare system in the way than they can. It is unfair that I have to pay for insurance and hospital bills while someone who is not even an United States citizen can get these health services for free. This video makes me extremely upset that the hospital has to pay millions of dollars in services because an illegal alien needed medical attention. I understand that if someone walks into the hospital and is dying that they must be taking care of but 2-3 years later and that person is still there. Many people have responded that 1.5 million is really not a lot f money when divided between the tax payers of that state but I doubt that this is the only case in which this has happened. At some point you have to draw the line and say that is enough because of this hospital’s and many other hospitals’ inability to say no has been one of the reasons our healthcare system is so horrible. I do not want to have inflated hospital bills because others have millions in unpaid bills.
Even though, I am upset about the situation the healthcare system is in, I have learned to see both sides of the situation. After sitting back and looking at it from the other side my original opinion has changed and I began to think about some questions that were raised in my mind. What if the illegal immigrants were turned away at hospitals regardless of their condition? How would the United States be seen by other countries? Many people that I know from other countries already see the United States as a bully. Would their opinions of the United States be confirmed? I cannot imagine being an illegal immigrant and having to go to the hospital but being turned away. What would happen if other countries did the same to the Americans living there? This issue does not seem to have a solution that both sides would be comfortable with. It is hard for me to completely be on one side. No one should be refused healthcare after all we are humans and doctors do have an oath they have to abide by. Can we really that inhumane to just allow someone to die knowing we could have saved their life? I know I could not sleep at night knowing that someone died and I could have saved them.
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I’ll admit that when I heard that woman talking about the hospital she works at, and all of the charges the hospital has been left with when it comes to illegal immigrants, I became a bit perturbed. When I think of all of the debt our country is in, the individuals who live pay check to pay check, or even have lost all that they own, I cannot help but look at the instances like this where it seems our money is being used in ways we do not know. I do pay taxes, but not a very significant amount of money, not compared to my parents or other working people. But did I know that my hard earned money was potentially being used in hospitals for costs that were never paid back? No. But at the same time, if I could give a portion of my check to help out those who are bed written in a hospital, I would do it in a second, and would want foreigners to do the same.
The thought of being on vacation in a tropical island, or in a place where hospitals are numbered, and care is hard to find, god forbid one of my family members were hurt and needed hospital care. I would be so angry if the country or place we were, would not or unable to care for us. Indeed, I would think that there are more illegal or foreign people in America than there are Americans in other countries. Maybe we are selfish for not wanting to spend our money on keeping others, not from our country, alive in our hospitals. But we really are much better off than most other people in this world.
On the other hand, most of the illegal immigrants living and working in our country, work for under the table wages, not paying any taxes. This would not make things seem so bad if these people were at least contributing to the costs they ring up. At the end of the day, these people are here in our country, but are they taking advantage of our countries’ facilities and ability to care for those who fall ill or get hurt every day? Those who are not well off in our country, I feel like I sympathize with their situation, paying indirectly to help these people, who end up being sent home with no bill. Those more well off, it doesn’t seem so bad for them. But when it comes down to it, I would want for others to care for me if my life depended on it, and am expected to care for others when they need it. In this world, we are all different, we all make different amounts of money a year, we differ in the kinds of medical care we need, and it all comes into play when such a debatable topic and dilemma such as this arises.
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I think the title of the video alone is discrimination enough. I think it is outrageous for the United States to kick a sick person out of a hospital because they do not have legal United States citizenship. I think in a way that is a form of attempted murder, especially in the Guatemalan’s case. He could have died and that Florida hospital would have solely been the reason for it because I remember that story and he was totally treatable. And even though he did get treated, he only got treated enough so they could discharge him, not so that they could heal him. And I thoughg healing was one of the main goals of a hospital. We must also consider other things about illegal immigrants before we even talk about the fact that they are sick and using our hospitals for free. We have to consider why they come to America in the first place, they want to be in a “democratic” and “equal” society, aside from the patriarchal and oppressive ideals that so many other countries have. They come here, to the United States because they think we do not have them problems, obviously someone lied to them. And if it was not so hard to obtain a green card than our illegal immigrant rate would be very low because I am pretty sure these “people” don’t want to be illegal, they just want to be able to live with the “freedoms” that god gave us, is that a problem. And also let’s consider that these immigrants are being used as maids and nannies. They are also used in most of the hands on work that this country need, and they are not making enough money for what the work that they do. So you would think that the “American” way to treat these illegal immigrants would be at least to allow to receive health care whether it was free or not, because the only time that there illegal status is a problem is when they are not helping some rich white man cut his grass or babysitting some bad ass rich and ungrateful child. We only fault there citizenship when they use the freedoms we take advantage of in this country. Because as a citizen of the United States I can go to any E.R. and receive medical treatment and whether I have insurance or not I will still be able to receive adequate treatment. And before ending let me talk about insurance. Insurance is so damn expensive that the average “American Citizen” can not even receive it. What makes the United States think that someone who comes to the U.S. illegally, who is automatically racially profiled, who is paid next to nothing for very adequate work, and who is constantly on the run from the “law” will receive or have the money to obtain insurance? These are very large claims to uphold and very irrational.
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Health care is a big discrepancy in America. Especially with a new president this year, we have had many presidential debates solely on the topic of health care insurance. Our country has gone back and forth on the topic of universal health care to all. This is what I believe: I don’t believe in giving health insurance to illegal immigrants. I don’t even understand why people would justify this belief. Thousands of people are without healthcare insurance or in debt for thousand because of insurance bills. I don’t think that we should give health care to people who shouldn’t even be in our country in the first place. The point about how other Americans in other countries getting health care is very nice, but you can’t compare this with our country. Our 4 million other people in other countries are LEGAL immigrants who pay taxes and so forth. They are not illegal, benefiting on others around them without paying for the benefits that they are receiving. I was reading over one of the responses in the blog and one person said that it would be wrong to just let someone die in our country because they do not have health care. My opinion on this is…Okay. I understand also that it is not right to let someone die because they are an illegal immigrant. My solution to this- we need to work with Mexico or the country that the illegal came from and send them back. I found out by the video that this does not work and it is hard to do. I think our president needs to make an effort to work on this then. When a hospital find out that they have an illegal immigrant, wanting medical attention they should contact the other country and send them back. If the injury or the necessity of the person does not have enough time to go back to the county, I feel then that we should treat the human. After the treatment, they should send a debt to that country of the amount of money the illegal immigrant racked up.
I was surprised to read that the police did not do anything about these situations. I find it wrong that when I watched this video what that lady had to say about the police lack of participation in sending illegal immigrants out of the country. The very people that are supposed to be taking care of this major problem in America are turning a blind eye to the situation. 1000,000 dollars a year are spent treating illegal immigrants just in Florida! Are the police just being lazy? I know many people in this country who are jobless would want to take over their jobs. Their answer when the hospital tells them that they have an illegal immigrant is “did they do a crime?” and if not they do nothing about it.
The first step I feel to stop all this nonsense is to start taking stricter control on illegal immigrants. If they are not here in America in the first place, then there will not be any issue later if they need medical attention.
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The situation of illegal immigrants getting free health care is indeed a sticky one, and my personal views on the matter are varied a bit. First let me say that I do not have extensive knowledge on this topic, though I do have opinions on that was said in this blog and the video in it. Mostly, I do not think it is right. Obviously if someone is near death and in direct and urgent need of medical assistance, they should not be turned away from any hospital or health center for any reason, especially monetary ones. The life of a human being should never be put into danger because the money to help them is not there. However, I do not think that someone who is living in the United States illegally deserves to have Americans pay all of their medical bills for them. I also do not necessarily agree with Sam’s argument about his “free” appendectomy in Mexico City. I highly doubt that Sam was there illegally to begin with. Furthermore, if he had been asked to pay for the surgery I would find it hard to believe that he would refuse or be unable to do so. If he had been asked but did not have the money, as an American citizen I think it would be the U.S. Health care’s responsibility to pay them. So if Mexico is willing to pay for surgeries for their guests, that is their deal. The United States on the other hand seems to have little choice. We have people who leave their countries and get to the U.S. without permission, and most likely with little money, and when they get sick, who is to pay for their bills? We can’t count on their country to do it. Why would a country want to pay for the medical expenses of one of their citizens who has left to become a part of the Unites States? In my opinion, the medical bills should still have to be paid by the illegal immigrant’s home country. As for their fare back home, I believe this should be paid by the individual. If they are unable to pay for it, their country should give them a loan that has to be paid back when they return. If someone wants to come to the U.S., I think they should get the permission they need to do so legally rather than showing up illegally and expecting their health care to be paid for by the American people’s taxes. If someone from another country wants to come here and be a part of the U.S. and benefit from our health care system that is fine, but they need to do it by coming here legally and becoming an American Citizen.
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I’m not sure why health care for illegal immigrants is even an argument today. Sam has stated in class that he is not a typical ‘bleeding-heart liberal,’ but this blog seems to contradict that concept. These people are coming to our country illegally, taking our citizens’ jobs, and committing crimes when they come here…and we’re supposed to reward them with free health care on top of that?
According to the Center for Immigration Studies, about 17 percent of Federal prison populations are comprised of illegal aliens. That works out to about 270,000 illegals. 270,000. With 11-12 million illegal aliens in our country today, can we afford to house 270,000 in Federal prisons, and then pay for the health care of the ‘law-abiding’ illegals (an interesting oxymoron in and of itself)? With 46.6 million uninsured American citizens, shouldn’t we be a little more worried about them before we worry about ‘undocumented citizens?’ Citizens who disregard our laws and our constitution from the minute they cross that border illegally? Citizens who disrespect the foundations of our country for their own selfish gain? I’m sorry if I sound insensitive, but I don’t give a damn about those people. They come to our country and create a plethora of problems for American citizens, and then the people who try to stand up against it and fight are subjected to harsh criticism and investigations from our government. Is this the message that we want to send to the rest of the world? That you can come to our country and do anything and get away with it, because even if people try to stop you, they’ll be the ones who end up getting punished? Because that’s exactly the message we’re sending.
Now, to address Sam’s assertion about Americans living abroad, that’s exactly it. They are living abroad! They didn’t sneak across the border in the dead of night to get to wherever they were going! They went for jobs or love or family. I realize it’s easy to criminalize everything that us big, bad Americans do, but in this case we are not in the wrong. If I were to leave this country and sneak into another country, I’d be so grateful that I hadn’t been caught and so fearful that I COULD get caught, I would never have the gall to just walk into their hospital and assume that they have to take care of me.
This all goes back to our country being a nation of cowards. Other countries are dealing with their illegal immigration issues. India is building a fence against Bangladesh. China is building a barrier against North Korea. Congolese illegals have almost all been expelled from Angola. And yet, here we sit, arguing over the ‘rights’ of illegal immigrants and health care. THEY DON’T HAVE RIGHTS HERE! They forfeited those rights that they would’ve been entitled to when they decided to bypass our justice system and come here on their own terms.
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