posted by Sam Richards
This issue has meaning for me now that I visited one of the most conservative of Muslim countries where women in the “niqab” or “abeyya” or “hijab” were all around me. Certainly many of the more Western oriented women only worn the abeyya intermittently, and many refused to wear it at all, but many extremely progressive women wore it in the same way that many “progressive” women in the U.S. wear high heels, make-up, and nylon stockings. Like their American counterparts, few claim to be victims of a male-oriented, oppressive culture. Rather, they take it as a matter of course.
No doubt there are more than a few women throughout the Muslim world who feel oppressed by the mandate to cover up, but I’m thinking that the vast majority just go along for the ride–and a much smaller percentage totally embrace the experience as a path toward spiritual and psychological growth. (I have to believe, much like the two women in this video.) So my question is related to the French government and people who think they know best for Muslim women — “We are going to turn you into enlightened French citizens.” What should they wear to demonstrate this? Perhaps skin tight jeans and high heels? A tight fitting shirt with an under wire bra? Thong underwear? That’s enlightened…not to mention comfortable.
Seems to me that truly enlightened governance allows people to pursue the path toward self awareness and growth that best suits them — as long as they don’t harm others in the meantime.
I personally do not know much about Muslim customs and traditions, so at first I was unsure how to feel about this topic. This summer I visited Europe on a backpacking trip. In Brussels I saw many women with burqas on. While Brussels is in Belgium it is a neighbor of France. In France I did not see one woman with a burqa on. When I saw these women I actually felt a little uneasy inside. However, I believe if one was to grow up in an area with people wearing burqas frequently then one would not feel the same way I did.
After thinking the topic over and debating it with my roommates. I have changed my initial response when I heard about France making them illegal to wear. At first I believed it to be okay, because I thought it was a sign of oppression to the women. Also, mostly the sects of Muslims who make their women do this are very traditional and are against the western powers. However, not all are like this. I believe the French making this illegal are doing so because they are scared of tension developing in the country. However, making the wearing of burqas illegal would cause the same thing to happen. Thus, I now think it would be a mistake to do so. The burqas are part of an entire culture and it is wrong to not allow somebody to wear something. France is a free country and people should be able to do as they please. Also in France there are 66 million people, but the article states only 2000 women wear burqas. It would almost be like a country not allowing people to wear a cross or crucifix around their neck. Another thing it would be like but not very comparable would be wearing a Penguins shirt in Philadelphia. Personally, I have done this before at a flyers vs penguins playoff hockey game. I was treated very harshly at the event, almost in humanely. I received numerous death threats and I was very thankful to have six security guards escort I and my friends out of the building. For the first time and hopefully last time I was actually scared for my life. I hope these women do not feel like this day after day. However, if the French government would force them to not wear their burqa then they would not feel comfortable. People should be allowed to do as they please as long as they do not bring harm to themselves.
In closing, I hope that the country of France will do what is right and not make burqas illegal. I believe this will just make things more complicated in the entire world.
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I personally believe it is NOT the job of the French government to ban the burqa. Now, because I am an American citizen my views may differ, but over all government should not interfere with religion and practices. I do find it odd that the only women interviewed were those who chose to wear the burgas. I do not know what percentage of Muslims in France wear them, but what is honestly so wrong about wearing them? We do not criticize priests for wearing their robes or nuns or even Jews for that matter that wear yarmulkes. Now as far as sexism goes this is bull**** (pardon my language). I do not believe everything I hear but if some women wear the burqa against the wishes of their husbands then they should have that right. What is so wrong with options? Just because some Muslims feel this style of dress is a little extreme does NOT mean others feel the same. We as humans have the right to think for ourselves. France is not trying to protect these women. They are trying to make everyone else more comfortable in public. Rather than protect these women, they are sheltering them. It is like building a gate. The gate does not keep bad things in; it keeps us from getting out. I completely agree with Sam when he says, “that’s enlightened…not to mention comfortable.” I laughed when I read this because of the shear sarcasm from it. While thongs are sexy and most revealing outfits are shockingly, well, shocking, they are not the most comfortable of outfits. If I could wear a robe around all day and call it religious, well hell, I would wear it too.
This action by the French government is a complete waste of its time, resources, and spending. As a Catholic, I would be personally offended if my government denied me from wearing the cross. Religion is something that should be kept separate from the government. I mean there are exceptions to this in the Middle East where government and religion are intertwined since most citizens are of Muslim background. The Christians in this area I am sure face some scrutiny but over all, the government cannot ban them from doing anything religious. At the end of the day we are all human. We all have a story to tell and we all (well most of us) believe in something greater than ourselves. Government was established by humans to organize ourselves, our land, our cultures. However, sometimes these areas intermix and clash. The burqa is a choice to these women and should not be banned because a few people are uncomfortable with them. To sound cliché, why can’t we all just get along?
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I most definitely feel that politicians sit around and have nothing else to do so they randomly select a group of people to attack. I remember a couple years ago when they aimlessly harassed young males for sagging their pant. They claimed that it was unlawful and violators would be fined. I thought their accusations were hilarious.I mean boys hanging their pants to their butts is disgusting and unnecessary but who's to say it is unlawful. What ever happened to expressing oneself? Of course the current situation in France does not compare to the foolishness that goes on around her but there is some relationship.
Anyways, I think that that the French politicians are being completely ignorant to the beliefs and customs of these women. Even though the man stated that it is not written in the Koran for women to cover up their face, these women have grew accustomed to such traditions that it would be hard or nearly impossible for them to remove these burqas from their faces. That's like asking the French people to stop drinking wine after every meal. They belief that wine is good for the heart and if some one of a different culture banned them from practicing such act, I'm sure they will feel disrespected and would rebel. I
I don't see what is wrong with these women wearing their burqas. They are not terrorizing or disturbing any peace in the country. They are simply living their every day lives, like any other "normal" french person, they have goals, heartaches, and most of all love for the country. They simply chose to distinguish themselves from the rest in an attempt to create identity and a certain way of life. I find it absurd that government official would rather limit someone's right to individuality than to handle other issues such as poverty, or anything other than criticizing one's lifestyle. This isn't fair and instead of being free from oppression and being inferior to a males, now these women have the weight of ignorant people judging them. Why do he want to to their faces anyways? Is h trying to marry them? Like how are they bothering him exactly? He claims its a "choice that is not compatible." My question is "compatible to what? Him? Its simply ridiculous. They also mention Fundamentals.
I really think some government officials simply wake up in the morning and decide who they are going to be an idiot towards. These official may not have carefully thought of the controversy that could erupt from their "wishful" thinking. Maybe just maybe they will realize that they were elected to govern the country which does not include banning individuals from an innate practice that causes no pain to the country.
I hope that these women stick to their beliefs and not let others change the way they want to live their lives. Nobody has the right I don't care who you are to declare what a person should/can or shouldn't/can't wear. Absolutely nobody! It seems like these officials have watched too much t filled with women who wear barely anything that they want everyone else to transform to fit these "status quo," which should not even be in existence.
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I agree with Sam they should not ban the wearing of baraquas. If less than 2000 women even wear why is this even an issue? I am glad Muslim women even have the choice to wear them or not, because in other countries like Saudi Arriba they may not. Everyone always wants to have power over someone. This is just another way of oppressing women and imposing on them. So may say why is this a problem, why are they upset? What if someone told you, you could not wear pants and that you always had to wear a skirt or a dress? On the other hand, if some one told Jewish males they could not wear their kippah? That would not happen. This goes back to a discussion we had in my class gender in Africa. Since “we” have the western perspective “we’ know what is right, and wrong. How about NOT. I think if they meaning Muslim women have a choice that all we should impose, as Sam said as long as they are not hurting anyone. Leave those women alone damn! It is imposing on their religion to make it illegal to wear the face covering. A similar situation is happening at Howard University where they are trying to ban leggings. Which I kind of think is stupid even thought girls wear them like they are pants whey they clearly are not, but is imposing on someone’s choice of dress; just as France is doing. I believe that France should take a hike and worry about more important things like helping Haiti the country they colonized. As I said before the most important thing is that these women even have a choice. I do not believe the face covering is a threat to national security so why pose a problem. France did not even explain or propose why this was a problem or why they wanted to ban the Baraqua. Another problem is that the west does not know best. “We” as westerners always think we know what is best for the entire world, when the mere fact is we do not. As another blogger stated they did not know Muslim, women chose to wear not only the face covering but also the whole attire. I do believe “we” should intervene in certain situations but this clear is not one of them. If some how this was doing, the women harm then I would say then intervene but it is not. This is a case of reverse injustice and they are single out a particular type of people. This is something that would be illegal in the United States of America. That is the magnitude of living in a democratic society where we have thing such as the first amendment where we can freely express our religion.
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I don’t know why people feel the need to tell other people how to live their lives. You don’t see the French government implementing a law that states all citizens must use deodorant or shave their bodily hair. Because I have family from France and I can say that they seemed to have missed that memo. I just don’t understand why the French government would go as far as to say they are going to fine (!) these women up $1,000 for wearing a burqa. I honestly believe they are intimidated by the look, which is only being worn by 2,000 women. France has a population of over 62 million so why are they targeting this group? I honestly believe it’s because some of the taxpayers voiced “concern” of having these women dress they way the do and the government is trying to satisfy the majority.
I don’t even see why they interviewed MEN about this ban because it’s not affecting them. The man who said that it’s not even in the Qur’an needs to understand that religious text can be translated to mean just about ANYTHING. That is why you see some Christians who believe in modesty (the Duggars) and then others who wear make up and bright clothes (Tammy Faye Bakker..r.i.p).
And the politician who said it’s just a choice, just sounds ridiculous. How can he even begin to criticize or explain something that by the sound of it he has no knowledge of?
If they wanted to prove a point, they should have interviewed women who choose not to wear the full burqa and then I believe they would’ve had a better argument. The women that were interviewed even said they had no problem unveiling themselves for identification purposes, and if more women who wear the full burqas feel this way, then what is the big deal? How can they enforce something so biased? I honestly want to know what made them come to the conclusion that they need to implement a ban of burqas. If they are worried about “terroristic threats” or “martyrs,” they should realize after the Nigerian who attempted to blow up the plane, that “terrorists” come in all colors, religions, shapes, and sizes. This is only my opinion since we can’t really assess the reason for it since it wasn’t really discussed in the clip. But I believe this is futile attempt to bring down a minute group of French citizens, shows that France really doesn’t have their priorities straight. I still can’t believe that 3/5 French citizens believe it should be illegal to wear burqas, especially since given the statistic; they aren’t the ones wearing it. People are so scared of things they don’t understand, it’s sickening.
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I liked this article, this was actually really interesting that the french had the thought to ban burqas. Like Professor Sam said, it should be fine to practice as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. There seems to be so much feminist attitude for those that embrace the muslim culture and wearing burqas is a part of that. I can see that women in America would be offended if they had to wear those while always outside but other than here being a completely different culture where women have had a movement of rights in the past to get where they are now is yet another thing those in Eastern countries have not had. I have no problem with America and their women bearing how much or little they want but understanding the culture would be better than criticizing it.
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While it is so so sad that women are forced to cover their bodies except their eyes and to hide themselves, France has no justice in saying what they can and cannot wear around in public. It would be like America banning their citizens to wear tee shirts and forcing them to wear crop tops. They are so used to that lifestyle it would be like them walking around naked. It would be such a shock to them. I do not think that they have the right to control religion. There is nothing about them following their religion that threatens anyone else.
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I don’t think France should ban burqas. I don’t even think there is justification of why they would. Women should be able to wear whatever they want, and be expressed however they choose to. I hate this constant judgment of culture, if they are used to wearing burqas at a young age..they aren’t going to change over night to completely showing their face. Whether they actually ban burqas or not, I think its an awful idea to change a custom and part of a religion based off the rest of the world. This is such a controversial topic, and I think that people need to start using their senses more.
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I guess I don't fully understand why it is such a big deal to cover a person's face. i don't believe that these women are doing this for their own pleasure because I as a woman can't imagine that that kind of garb would be pleasant to wear all of the time, but I also don't see why the French government cares so much…it's not as if these women are bothering anyone by wearing these outfits. I get that the government thinks that it is condoning male dominance but if these women truly think that it isn't and they are comfortable with it then what's the problem?
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This is actually really surprising to I wouldn’t think that in the times we live in now people’s faiths would be put to question like this is. I honestly do not agree with what the French government is trying to do. I can see where the government can be concerned about these women’s actions, and how they are looking for the general safety of the citizens.
The government may just be looking to have some type of control over what these women do. Since they are wearing these garments that are covering all their features it is very hard to differentiate between them. It is extremely hard to recognize the women with just their eyes. So for safety reasons is why there is such a big concern by the government. But just as the women said there are ways to get around the issue. They are willing to show their faces when necessary. The wear the garments because they feel like they should and that is a way of expressing themselves and their faith. So by telling them that they are not able to wear what they choose is like taking away those simple rights that everyone can happily have. If they were to pass this law it’s a matter of time when they will be passing some other ridiculous law taking some other simple right away.
I believe these women should fight for what they believe in because if they don’t then they will be stomped down and nothing they would say would be taken seriously. I know that sounds extreme, but who knows if that’s how it would really be. I mean I have never been to France and I don’t know how their laws are over there but I probably have been to accustomed to having free will and rights that allow me to express myself and my faith how I choose to. Maybe it is because I have grown up in the United States and my faith is part of the majority so I haven’t had to worry about being judged about my faith and the things that are involved in it.
It also makes me think about the people coming up with these laws. What are their faiths? And how would they feel if they instead of being the majority they were the minority and the majority made a law for them not to be able to practice what they believe in, with things that are part of their culture and religion. I honestly don’t think they would be too happy about that. I am not saying that nothing should be done, but I do not think that it should not be aloud at all that is just wrong. There should be some type of in between among the government and these women.
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In response to Sam Richard's post, I would like to say that what the French Government is proposing is no different than what happened in the United States of America years ago with segregation. Most people in the gasp at the presence of any form of segregation in the world today. It is widely accepted that people should not be treated any differently or with any discriminatory attitude due to their physical differences. It is now widely accepted that we are all simply people, who have physical features adapted for our best survival depending on where we live geographically. Otherwise we are all the same.
I feel like the problems in the present world have so much to do with Muslim people, and I am not surprised that (as the video suggested) Muslim people feel targeted with this possible new law. Would one ever stop a black woman from wearing a head scarf? Would one ever stop a white man from wearing a collared shirt? If any attempt were even made to try to do one of those things, half of the United States would probably break out into riots. Moreover, would one ever prohibit kosher food for Jewish people? Would one ever force a Hindu person to eat beef? If anybody argues that what I have suggested is a completely different subject, I would challenge to ask them, how? It is as much of a Muslim woman's way of life to wear a burqa as it is for a black woman to wear a head scarf, and it is as much of a Muslim woman's religion to wear a burqa as it is for a Hindu person not to consume beef.
I do not understand how a government could even make this into an issue. They are basically proposing for it to be against the law for women to fully practice the Muslim religion in France. It almost feels like a subtle attempt to remove all people associated with the Muslim religion from the country. Furthermore, I feel like if they were to actually go through with the law, it is going to be the beginning of many new problems for the entire world.
Honestly, I am personally shocked to find out that many women wear burqas out of their own will. As an outsider I never did understand why Muslim women ever wore the burqas the way that they did, but it never bothered me. So I wonder why it bothers the French government. How do a small population of women who wear slightly more clothing than the majority of the rest of the population affect the French government, or the other people in any way? What is the point of making a law against it? I truly just do not understand it.
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I completely agree that it is absurd to try and pass a law prohibiting Muslim women to wear their traditional clothing. All of the women interviewed in this piece seemed very educated and made the decision themselves to wear the burqas. As they said in the video, many women still wear it even though their husbands disagree. It is obviously something that is happening because of deeply religious beliefs and not because they are being forced into oppression. What would happen if the United States government banned Roman Catholic priests from wearing their collars or nuns from wearing veils in public? It simply would not happen, even if the government argued that they were being “ forced” to do so. The same goes for the banning of yamicas worn by Jewish males. No one would ever think to ask them to remove it from their head for any reason because it is obviously worn for religious reasons. If a country claims to let people practice whatever religion they so choose, they must respect the customs that occur within said religion. In many countries, school children are required to wear uniforms. I am not sure that French children have to wear them to school, whether public or private, but in the United States, many children wear them. If this ban were passed into law, all sorts of uniforms or religious clothing, along with turbans and other forms of head coverings should be banned as well. I am still unsure as to why the French government is trying to ban them in the first place. Is it because it makes them uncomfortable to see people in public? I wonder if anyone ever stopped to think about whether the Western customs of dress of French women make the Muslim women uncomfortable. They are probably not sitting at home plotting to save the French women from the tight jeans and belly shirts that they are being “ forced” to wear and therefore, are oppressed by their clothing choices. Unless there is a serious reason that can be cited as to why Muslim women should not be permitted to wear their full body coverings in public, this should not even be a debate. By banning them from wearing their traditional Muslim clothing in public, it is completely disregarding the reason why they wear them in the first place. If their religion mandates them to be worn in public in order to stay pure, then who are we to tell them that they cannot do something that they obviously feel is for a good reason. Before the Western world goes around doing what they feel is the “ right thing” and saving all of the supposedly oppressed people in the world we should first understand why people are choosing to do these things in the first place. There is normally a valid reasoning behind it, and if we stopped worrying so much about what other people were doing, many more things would get accomplished that would actually make a difference in society.
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I will start by saying that every human being on this earth has Humans rights. One of the human rights is the freedom to practice religion. Wearing different coverings for religion is part of a human right and should not be turned into a law or something people debate about. Telling people that wearing burqas will soon being against the law is like saying wearing a hat is against the law. People wear different types of clothing based on their morals and taking away someone’s human right. There for my opinion about this issue will just be based on simple human rights over every human being.
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First of all, France is not the United States. They can make their own choices about the preservation and upkeep of their culture. They can require their citizens to dress similarly. They may proceed however they see fit if their democracy allows it. Too many of my fellow classmates are imposing "American" ideals on this foreign country without knowing anything about the French constitution or government structure. Sure, much of our democracy is modeled off of France, but the intricacies of personal freedoms (in the purely legal sense) can be totally different.
The world is getting smaller and smaller. With new technologies and new ways of traveling it has become relatively easy to move from country to country. If someone is uncomfortable, or they feel persecuted, they can move. It's harsh, but it's the reality. The United States was born because of this. People settle where they are most tolerated and where they see a future for themselves. I think we forget this in this globalized world. With everyone moving around because of business, we think that every country should standardize their laws; find the median so that everyone is comfortable. Even if there ideally should be standardization, our country does not have the moral high ground to demand it. There is plenty of intolerance and injustice right in our hometowns. We don't need to look across the Atlantic to find it, then spout our ideals like we don't have dirty hands.
Secondly, we need to look at European countries with a historical perspective. They may have been around longer, but they haven't been anywhere near as diverse as the Unites States. France, in particular, is a country that is adamant in preserving their culture. With an influx of other cultures in their citizenry, their now experiencing a backlash. Anything Muslim related obviously gets the most press, because of the Western worlds insistence that its where terrorists come from, but France is tough on plenty of foreign influences. They're just trying to maintain the status quo. Is it right? Maybe not, but its not like we haven't tried it before. It is unfair to be smug and think France is completely in the wrong. They are a country that is one, proud of their culture and two, struggling with the integration of new cultures into that.
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As a woman, which is a gender that is discriminated slightly for many of the time, I kind of feel for these Muslim women. I do believe that these women have rights to show their faces and express what they think with their fashion, hair, makeup, etc. The big barrier that these women are facing is their religion and society. As many people know, most of the Muslim countries go serious about covering women's bodies and faces with a long sheet of cloth. After I read this blog entry, I imagined myself in a burqa; I will not be able to stand it not even for an hour. As soon as I wear it, I would think that I am caged in a tiny cell without a wide-open window where I cannot see the world clearly.
Every time I see those Muslim women in burqas, these are the things that come to my mind: "How do they breathe? How do they call their selves as civilized people in those self cages?" But as soon as I read Sam's blog, I realized that I was totally wrong. How come I thought like a dumb who did not know how to understand other cultures and their values? I am pretty sure that there are many people who still think like I did. I am sure that there are many people who even feel sorry for those Muslim women in burqas. However, none of us has rights to feel sorry for them. Third people might see Muslim women as oppressed souls by their society, but we do not have to because our values are not the right answers all the time.
In our society, freedom to express can be represented by our the way we dress, the way we think, etc. Consequently, that is why we see Muslim women as suppressed people. But try to think this way; Muslim women do not think what is wrong or unfair about their burqas because they were raised to accept it as the right answer. In their eyes, Americans with short skirts and tank tops can be seen as unsaved souls. In their eyes, we might be the people who do not try to search for true meanings of lives in gods. What I want to say is, that there is no right or wrong when it comes to cultures.
In the video, the reporter says French government is trying to ban burqas and even thinking about imposing fines on Muslim women in them in public. I do think that this is the real invasion of freedom, not Muslim countries that force women to wear burqas. As Sam said in his blog entry, skin tight jeans and high heels are not the objects that can demonstrate how one is civilized. Whatever one culture is making its citizens to do, there is no room for other cultures to intervene. Thus, I strongly believe that French government should reconsider about banning burqas.
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I do not think the government should be able to decide what someone should be allowed to wear in public. Why can Muslim women not wear burqa’s? European women can wear just about nothing outside and the government does not tell them to wear more clothing. Why does it offend people if someone wants to cover their body from head to toe, but when someone’s outfit is so revealing that they shouldn’t have bothered to wear clothes no one think anything of it. To me this is just another form of persecution for Muslims. I have walked around the campus in the warm weather and seen nothing but extra short shorts, no one wants to tell these girls that they should not wear them, so why make a law to deny a particular group of women their right to express themselves freely. I understand removing the burqa’s so that they can be properly identified, but I see no reason to go beyond that.
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in my opinion, wearing too much does not pose the same offense as wearing to little. In wearing too little we run the risk of indecency for younger children. Wearing too much should not be punishable by law in France. The women in the video were willing to show the face for identification. outside of that wearing a veil does not justify any legal action. Would we asks nuns to stop wearing their habits? or perhaps would we ask them to wear mini skirts or just any revealing attire?
If the women needed to reveal themselves for safety purposes such as being at an airport. That should be allowed, but if they are going to use the coverings as an advantage to do harm to people, then there is reason behind having such a law. But only to the extent that they should be required to show their faces at any given check point for safety reasons. aka at the airport. If the Government seeks to uphold freedom of religion among other things it should not prevent a person from practicing his or her religion in the way that they believe is correct.
AND THATS THE WORD
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The fact that the government thinks that it has the right to mandate what people can wear is a bit appalling to me. Of course, we cannot have people walking around naked, hence why there is a law against indecent exposure but the fact that someone can’t wear what they want is an intrusion against a person’s individual tastes and choices. A person should be able to wear what they want and the fact that the government wants to tell someone that they can’t be different is telling someone they can’t be who they want to be. People use clothing and type of dress as a form of personal expression and a way to show their personality to those around them. The government, by banning this, is telling people that they can’t be who they want to be and they instead have to adhere to a certain subset of physical characteristics which is inherently wrong.
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French officials claim, “Burquas are not just an article of clothing, but a symbol that is incompatible with the French Republic". To me, this new law seems more like a dictatorship than anything else. Who’s to say what a woman can or can’t wear? And I would think that if anyone should know this it should be the government. The whole thing sounds completely ridiculous. They claim that a man forcing a woman to wear the coverings is an act of oppression towards women, but in the same respect I feel that the government stepping in is nothing less than oppression at its finest. If anything, there should be a law against men forcing women to cover up (and if a woman chooses to wear a Burqua, no one should have the right to stop her). I don’t think this law should be passed and I’m very surprised that the government is actually wasting this much time on a law that puts a limitation on how much a woman can cover herself. Most women actually want to wear a Burqua, and I feel they should be able to if they would like to. It was actually surprising that some felt so strongly about wearing one that they went against their husband’s wishes to be more covered up. Also, watching the video clip I was surprised to learn that they would actually fine women for wearing them and deny service to those who chose to wear them. It is mind blowing that in present day the government would put these laws into effect. I doubt that store owners and police officers would actually enforce these laws. Especially cops, I don’t think they would waste time worrying whether or not a woman is dressed in accordance with the government‘s approval as opposed to looking out for civilian’s welfare. More importantly, I feel that it is a violation of freedom of religion (and expression). I don’t think it is fair to tell these women that they can’t wear a garment that goes hand and hand with their religious beliefs. Comparably, it’s almost like telling a Christian they are not allowed to wear a cross. I really think the government should take a moment to analyze what they are getting ready to do, and even imaging someone telling them they couldn’t use a religious symbol or even telling them they couldn’t wear suits and ties, I bet then they wouldn’t be so ready to pass such an outrageous law. To me, I think the French government should put this idea to rest. It’s a waste of time and I feel that they should be spending their time looking at an issue of more significance, like something that would actually be considered harmful to the citizens of France.
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“The Enlightened ’West’ Knows Best.” The post is wrong right from the start- its title. The western government and people think they know how to live and what is wrong and right in society. Their way is the best way, and nothing else can even come close. Who are they to determine the beliefs and spiritual rules for women of the Muslim religion? The French Parliament has no right to enforce only the religious views that it wants. Women should be allowed to wear burqas if they want to. The women deny that they wear the burqas due to oppression and demands from husbands and other male relatives. They say they are simply following their religious beliefs. How can anybody draw the line for another person as to what they should and should not follow? How can anybody, including the French Parliament, define whether a burqa is a symbol of religious belief or a symbol of oppression? Since I am not Muslim, I cannot say whether women should have to cover their faces and bodies or not. The same holds true for the French Parliament since it is not consisted of Muslims and clearly does not understand the Muslim viewpoint. One of my best friends since kindergarten happens to wear a hijab because she is a very religious Muslim. She chose to wear it all on her own after she went on a pilgrimage to Mecca. She started wearing it in the 4th grade, but had to take it off after the World Trade Center act of terrorism when many members of society began to blame all Muslims for the terrorist attack. My friend was not forced by anybody to wear this hijab. Her father and her brother did not care if she wore it or not. However, she felt so close to her religion and thought that covering her head would give her a greater connection to Islam so she began to wear it everyday. I asked her why she wanted to cover her thick, beautiful hair. She told me that her hair should not be a reason for others to like her or be attracted to her. Her interpretation of this religious head cover was that it would allow others to be friends with her and care about her for who she is on the inside rather than on the outside.
I completely agree with one of the statements in the post. “Seems to me that truly enlightened governance allows people to pursue the path toward self awareness and growth that best suits them — as long as they don’t harm others in the meantime.” Again, what and who determines if governance helps people find the path to self awareness and growth? It seems as though the French parliament would actually harm those who wish to cover their faces and bodies by not allowing them to do so. These people would be robbed of their religious freedom. Ironically, the parliament would actually create oppression for these women by not letting them cover themselves when they desire to do so for religious purposes.
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Having the jihab illegalized is one of the most offensive thing you can do to the Muslim community, think about it, the only reason they were a jihab because they think that they shouldn’t reveal themselves to anyone but their husband, and legalizing the law will pretty much tell them that you have to show more skin because that’s how we do it in Europe. Seriously people, iam a Christian but I come from a Muslim country that have all these mixed thoughts about Americans and Europeans having sex before marriage, sleeping with different partners and a million other things that they consider to be a very sinful thing to do. And that is one of the reasons why they have all these terrorist attacks (I am talking about extremist off course), they think that Americans and Europeans are not following the work of “allah” and making him/her anger so its their mission to stop them, so his whole not being able to wear a jihab is just another thing to prove them right ad give them one more reason for a terriost attack, just wait and watch. (i am talking about Muslim extremist , not all Muslims are terrorists,i know that.)
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This is shocking, to say the least. I can't imagine anyone actually thinking that it would be a good idea to ban women from wearing burqas. I was in disbelief when they mentioned that 3 out of 5 French citizens agree with the proposed law. I have to wonder how they worded the survey if they got that many people to disagree with common sense. How arrogant are these people to think that they should be able to legally tell someone that they cannot wear a burqa (which can arguably be one of the least offensive garments). This just doesn't seem like something that a government should be able to control. Now if individual businesses want their customers to show their faces as a means of crime control, that is another thing. For example, my bank asks all customers to remove their hats and face coverings before going up to the counter. I see no harm in that. The ladies in the video actually agreed that they would have no problem with that either.
Towards the end, one Muslim gentleman mentioned how he agrees with the ban because there is nothing in the Quran telling women to cover their faces. A lot of religions have at least one commonplace practice that isn't mentioned in their bible. For example, the infallible pope isn't even mentioned in the Bible. These women should be allowed to express the modesty that they associate with their religion and no government should be able to tell them otherwise. There are no bad intentions involved; these are simply very religious women practicing their religion. With the growing amount of dissent toward the Muslim community, which is as prevalent in Europe as it is here in the United States, enacting such a law would only make people less tolerant towards Muslims. What the French are doing with this law is actually irresponsible and potentially dangerous. They could be setting religious tolerance back for another couple of years, maybe decades. No, I do not see any logical reason to enact such a law and there really does not appear to be any legitimate basis for it.
During the end of the Bush administration, I was beginning to think that Europeans had legitimate reasons for their negative opinions on our country. But laws such as this really goes to show just how hypocritical and backwards they really are. I think what all this really boils down to is a lack of racial and religious diversity that countries like France have. Our country was founded on the idea that anyone can live here regardless of their race or religion and it still took us centuries to finally come to terms with our differences. What does that say about other countries who do not have a long background of racial diversity?
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Personally I can see why the French Government can see wearing hijab or burqas as a sign of political Islam. Turkey has a population that is 99% Muslim but wearing of hijab or burqas in public spaces is banned since 1997. I’m not saying I support these governments’ actions on this issue, I simply believe that people should have their freedom of expression and be able to wear whatever they want. I know that Quran doesn’t require women to wear burqas but what these women base their beliefs about their clothing comes from the words of Muhammad so their choice still has a religious background but it is more like a personal and Spiritual choice to them. I find a government getting involved with a choice based on religion quite ridiculous. Trying to change or affect someone’s beliefs and tell them that what they believe is wrong doesn’t make sense to me. Like I said before it is a personal and spiritual choice for these women and I believe that as long as they are willing to show their faces for purposes of identification and comply with French law or any other countries laws they should be allowed to where what they want. I’m saying any other country because even though the video on this blog talks about French Government , I know that there are other European countries such as Netherlands, Belgium and Germany that have a standard prohibition for burqas in their agendas.
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This article demonstrates how insecure people and the government can be. Think about how a simple garment made out of cloth can cause a government to reevaluate their laws. That is a really interesting thing. I myself don’t know why these women are wearing burqas. Maybe the women themselves don’t know why they where them either. In some countries women are forced to wear burqas by law and now in France the law may force these women to take them off. Women in this kind of situation must be confused to a degree. These laws that are telling them what to do constantly may have stripped away their ability to make choices for themselves. It would be fascinating to learn more about their side of the story and their reasoning and thought process behind it. It would also be beneficial for the rest of the country to understand their side of the story as well. It would make people feel better to understand them and it would make the women feel better to be understood. It also may cause the women to question why they are wearing these burqas in the first place. Nothing bad can really be said about using understanding to solve problems. It would also decrease tension, dissolve boundaries and enlighten the French population.
The parliamentary leader in this video really annoyed me because he seems angry at these burqas. He claims that they are “more than an article of clothing” which is really his own point of view that makes that so. Uptight people like him are making these kinds of laws based on what is “compatible with the rules of the republic”. This kind of logic doesn’t leave whole lot of room for understanding and compromise but instead dehumanizes the population that it is dealing with.
The banning and permitting of things is solely the government’s way of keeping things under control. The idea that banning certain things is for the people’s own good is complete nonsense and a lie that’s used to brainwash and keep people from questioning. Whether it is an article of clothing, a drug, or a curse word on the television, the banning of anything that the government deems as “bad” maintains their control which keeps society running smoothly. Also when a government “gives” you certain freedoms they are still controlling you. The illusion is that they are giving you a freedom when in reality you already had that freedom to begin with. So it is still authority that determines what you can and can’t do. This is why one government or society may want you to cover up yourself while another government or society may want you to uncover yourself. There is no real right or wrong because it’s really just about governments maintaining control.
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This is the most ridiculous proposal I have ever heard. It is so blatantly trying to legalize discrimination it’s disgusting. Since when can you refuse service to someone because of their appearances? Oh that’s right, that’s exactly what the civil rights movement in America was fighting. Who the hell is the French government to tell women they can’t choose the way they dress? My mother is Algerian, like the woman in the clip, and used to wear a veil over her face, though now she just sports the hijab. My sister wears the hijab and I used to wear it for a year. It was MY decision to wear it and no man in my family told me to do so. Ironically it was the men in my family who tried to discourage us fearing backlash after 9/11, but we weren’t afraid. The hijab is worn for modesty. I’m a playboy model now and I finally understand all the purposes the hijab serves. Women choose to wear it because not only does it keep you pure but it protects you from pigs, amongst other things. I’ve never lived in France but do they not have freedom of religion? Clearly this would be infringing on it. It’s true the Quran doesn’t require you to cover your face but that doesn’t mean you should disallow people who want to go above and beyond what is asked of them. I can’t believe how stupid these lawmakers are. I think it’s really funny that they make assumptions that women are oppressed and shit when if they were to do just the slightest bit of research maybe they’d see how flawed their logic is.
How does wearing a headdress go against the republic? Is the freedom to practice your religion against the law? Anyone who thinks that women covering themselves up is sexist is a fucking moron (excuse my language). I don’t know much about Christianity or Judaism, but if I remember correctly from paintings and such, haven’t women always covered their hair and stuff up until being objectified was so glorified? Shouldn’t these politicians be spending their time on more important issues, like helping the homeless or stopping crime? Who are these women hurting? A scantily clad woman who sees someone with a veil isn’t going to be affected at all. What do these men care if women hide their faces? I fail to see any purpose for this oppressive law. I didn’t realize that we live in a day and age when people are being forced to assimilate to things against their moral beliefs. The women who choose to cover themselves up realize how non-important superficial appearances are. Maybe the ignorant men who are trying to pass these laws should learn the same.
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Unless I misunderstood Prof. Richards’ point, I really don’t believe that the French were trying to make women who wear head coverings become enlightened. It is easy to assume that the laws banning religious expression in France were because of the French government thinking that either the Muslim women are oppressed by their religion or that the women need to be brought into the 21st century by wearing different clothes.
The true reason for the French’s ruling in 2004 to ban religious expression was stated in the first 10 seconds of the clip, which Mr. Richards ignored. The facial covering is seen to the French as a sign of “fundamentalism.” There is nothing wrong with being a fundamentalist Muslim, however, Al-Qaeda is a group founded by fundamentalist Muslims. They interpret the Qur’an literally and out of context to the point that they justify many of their radical and harmful actions. The French government is probably trying to prevent hate crimes against these French Muslims and to discourage extreme following of religion over following the government. Also, there were many religious sects in France that were trying to get the government to forbid and to control other groups propagating negative images of their own religion. France, since 1904, has had a separation of church and state, and it does not recognize religions.
As usual though, the media finds Muslims and the hijab fascinating. To many people, the hijab, nikab and burqa worn by women to cover their bodies seem oppressive. In some areas, like Afghanistan, it is oppressive, and the women are punished severely for not being fully covered. In other areas, like Saudi Arabia, it is also worn more out of safety than out of personal preference. However, in many more other areas, the traditional coverings of Muslim women are worn for religious, cultural or personal reasons. On the other hand, no ever questions if the traditional clothing of men in any area of the world is oppressive.
Prof Richards did not research the reasons for France’s passing of the banning of religious expression through appearance. I believe many people think Muslim women are oppressed by their religion and that these women need to be enlightened, but I do not think the French government nor do the French people believe that.
Additionally, the CNN video only focused on Muslim women forced not to wear their coverings. Meanwhile, many other religions were forced not to wear their symbols, including the Sikhs. While there were an estimated 2000 women in France wearing the Muslim coverings, there are 10 000 Sikhs in France, half of which it is safe to assume are men. Sikh men are not allowed to cut their hair because their long free hair symbolizes God’s perfection. To control their hair they wrap it in turbans. Since 2004, Sikh men have been arrested for not complying and the Sikhs consequently have become tighter by creating private Sikh schools so that their children may wear the proper clothing for their religion. The media does not twist this into an oppression story, and Mr. Richards couldn’t say this is France enlightening Sikh men. This is only the French government not wanting to recognize and to officially get involved with religious laws.
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In response to the French denying the Muslim women from wearing their burqas is obscene and it infringes upon the women's religious practices. The women should be allowed to wear whatever they choose to. Their choice of clothing is not harming the French people in any way, shape or form. I believe that the French are just raising a red flag in response to the September eleventh attacks in new york city on the Twin towers. The people in France are trying to prevent the Muslim women from "dirtying" the image of France, and they are supposedly trying to protect the the people of France.
When I used to see the Muslim women with their full burqas I used to feel sorry for them and felt they were oppressed and inferior to the Muslim women. I didn't think that the women had the choice to wear the burqas or not, I thought they were forced to wear the burqa. The women have the choice to wear the burqas and a lot willing do. I also believed that the women had to be married in order to wear the burqas, but some women are not.
The issue of banning the burqa France has raised so much controversy. French president, Sarkozy, believes that the burqa isn't a religious sign, but one of "subjugation" (Hossain). The French are failing to see that the Muslim women sometimes choose to wear the burqa as a part of their religion. The french also believe that it's the submission of women. In my opinion, the French are just trying to maintain an image of France, and the Muslim and the burqa don't coincide with its image. The Muslim religion conflicts with that of the majority religion in France.
Also, France has the largest Muslim population in Europe and islam is the second largest religion in France, and the French are known for taking pride in their secular culture.
Again, if Sarkozy is trying to h"help" the Muslim women by relieving them from oppression and subjugation from having to wear the burqa, in the end it will not stop them from being oppressed. The banning of the burqa would just be the tip of the iceberg in their so called "oppression".
In the end, Sarkozy is trying to prevent the French from being over powered by islam. He is sending the message, that if you want to move to France, you better be prepared to let go of your ways and take theirs. The burqa is a tangible symbol of France's plight to stop islamic overrule. Moreover, banning the Muslim women from wearing the burqa will not force them to wear revealing clothing, and suddenly become more french. In reality, it may have an opposite effect, marginalizing the Muslim minorities and forcing them to become more extreme in their beliefs as they see them come under attack, which in the end could spawn what the French were trying to avoid, another September eleventh attack.
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I think that it is simply ridiculous that the French government wants to ban the use of burqas. This is a religious choice and culture for Muslim women. Banning this in France would lead to great conflict and debate. These women are not harming anyone by wearing the full veil. I am not sure how the French government works but if the U.S. does not have such laws why would any other country want to? If Christians can wear crosses on their neck why can’t Muslims wear burqas? Either way, both objects are symbols of religion. If this were my case I’d be utterly offended .
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I remember a conversation that I had with my friend once about this. We thought that the only reason why it threw people off as being “wrong” was because it seemed “scary”. To those who don’t know that the women do have a choice in wearing burqas, it certainly does look weird and scary. Just like to those who don’t know about geisha could be afraid of their pale-white makeup. But obviously, ignorance doesn’t give anyone the right to make judgments. Unfamiliarity brews contempt. However, from others’ comments I found out that many French people are Muslim. Then, why don’t they understand that these women have the right to express themselves? Why must this ridiculous decision to ban burqas have to surface? Just because someone looks different doesn’t mean that they’re wrong – it just means that they express themselves in different ways. I would expect that the French people, and the government, should be familiar with the wearing of burqas, unless I’m expecting too much from them. The decision for these women to wear burqas is just like how some women in America choose to wear a lot of makeup while others choose to wear no makeup at all, and how some women wear skirts and dresses all the time while others wear mostly pants. It’s all personal preference. It’s a way for the women to express themselves! It’s taking freedom away!
I also remember watching the news and seeing women’s rights movement groups claiming that women should be allowed to show their faces instead of hiding them behind burqas. Back then, I thought that the women were forced to wear them and that the women’s rights movement groups had to be correct. I now know better, but there are many people who don’t. So the French people who think that women shouldn’t be wearing burqas may have a somewhat of a valid point in that they don’t know what they’re talking about, but the government? Shouldn’t they know better? But then again, what can you really expect from any government of any country? Banning the wearing of burqas is like banning women from wearing pants! Maybe not exactly, but you get what I’m trying to say. I think the banning of burqas is the same as banning freedom of expression. The women are choosing to wear what they want, so they should be allowed to do so. If someone told me that the government was going to ban the wearing of pants on women, I would be very angry, so I can’t help but sympathize with these women. Besides, it’s much better than seeing women walk around with little to no clothing on their bodies! Let these women wear whatever their heart desires!
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I feel that people regardless of religious choice or cultural heritage should be permitied to dress however they want because people are people and no person should be forced to wear anything. Forcing one type of clothing on a group of people, even if they don’t feel like it, immediately identifies them as a separate category. Albeit that sometimes this can identify them as a superior group in this case with Muslim women it sets them below the men by covering their beauty. In my opinion covering the natural beauty that is inherent in women is a crime against nature but that’s an entirely different point. What I am saying is that any group forcing another group to cover themselves is an obvious form of oppression. It is the definition of oppression. Even if you forget the fact that Muslim men treat their women poorly the dress alone is enough to stand up against. Women are the birth mothers of the world and should be respected as such. So my stand falls in-between both points, I think it is wrong to force women to cover up and I think its just as wrong to make them dress up in disgusting outfits that over sexualize them and make them into objects of lust. I just want to point out that once again popular culture and religion have let human society down again but yet we still insist on clinging to them. When will we let go of these preconceived notions about body image and conservatism and let go and experience life at its fullest in its truest forms? We are missing the beauty that we as a human race have been blessed with! Why conceal all of these wonderful gifts when they are here for our appreciation? I’m not saying we should make them out to be some object of worship but instead that we should simply appreciate the human form for what it is in any shape or form and realize that what we really need in this earth is not more beautiful people but to change the way we think and realize that everyone on earth is beautiful, just as Sam said! And that human life is beautiful and love in any form is beautiful and instead of fighting to cover up anything in this life we should be fighting to protect what we hold true and who we really are. Fight for truth and beauty regardless of what religion or society dictates. Let these beautiful Muslim women be free and express their true gifts of beauty and passion and individuality. Set them Free! Set all the women of the world free! From oppression and media image and societies constructs and religion and even men!
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I can understand both views of this blog. On one side, the Muslim women feel that they should be able to cover up if they want to. The other side is that we are living in a day and age where this is unneeded and the women should be free and uncovered. Yes, nowadays, women do not have to cover up in front of men, but I feel that if they want to, then they should. All they are doing is the innocent act of carrying out the old traditions of the Muslim culture. Is there anything wrong with that? Preserving culture goes on throughout the world; it just happens to be that this time, the preserving is done in a way that is very noticeable. Every religion keeps up traditions. That's what separates religions other than the different set of beliefs. For example, there is Christianity, but the difference between the different sects is that they keep up with tradition in different ways. Muslims do this also. There is a difference between the traditions of the Shi'ites and the Sunni Muslims. I feel that if these women want to cover up to keep up with tradition then they should. The people they should be receiving the most support from are the other Muslims. They should appreciate that these women are trying to do this. Even aside from the religious aspect, these women are doing no harm at all. I could understand if they were trying to rob a bank or steal from a store. They are everyday people just like everyone else.
I don’t want to be incorrect by saying they are living in a free country, but if they are, they should be allowed to cover up if they want to. Sometimes it is hard to break habits that you’ve been doing for a long time. Even though what they’re doing isn’t a bad habit. Society is just making it one. In the video, I saw a man look at them as if they were crazy. The women already know that what they are doing isn’t normal. They already knew they would receive looks from strangers wondering why they are dressed the way they are. The way I see it, they are a good example of strong and powerful women. Regardless of the remarks, they have a high enough self-confidence to continue their dress code and not give any care at all. Their god should be proud that they are making a bold move like this. They are setting a better example than the other Muslims who are criticizing their actions. Society is the one thing that holds people back from doing things they care the most about. The lesson learned from this is to not be afraid to do something just because it’s not the typical way to go. Be yourself.
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I began writing this post with the question, "Where does a government get off deciding exactly what is right for every citizen?" It ocurred to me that, in a lot of ways, we do rely on our government to tell us what is good for us or how we should live. But then, I remembered what my original point was— no government can decide what is right for all of its citizens…. including the French Republic. This potential law banning burqas is only going to stifle the growth of people personally, as well as spiritually. How can people be happy under such circumstances? More so, it impedes on a cornerstone of an entire culture and religion,…. Maybe its because I'm an American and find what the First Amendment awards us to be common sense, but a government keeping its citizens from cultural or religious practices simply does not sit well with me. Not. At. All.
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I have to agree that the Muslim women who choose to wear their burqas should be free to do so. If that is what they are most comfortable in then so be it. I don’t see how the French government regulating the religious attire of such a small group really does anything beside add busy work for the Parliament. The one guy in the video said that it had to do with the fact that they were hiding their faces. Yes, they are but he knows the reason why, as most people worldwide do, and therefore shouldn’t be so threatened or upset about it. It is a religious thing. So what? To me it just sounds like another superfluous reason to strip a person of not only their outward displays of religion but of culture as well. It’s like telling a person they can’t wear a rosary if they want to, or carry around Buddhist prayer beads. Sure, a burqa is much more conspicuous that the previous two but all three do the same thing: they ground that person to their religion. It’s an outward expression of what they believe and that shouldn’t matter whether she is on a bus or going to pick up children. Maybe people have become more paranoid these days. I don’t know, but that’s personally how I feel about the whole situation. I just find it ridiculous to pass a law regulating what a woman can and cannot wear. It’s like saying wearing a balaclava is illegal for whatever made-up reason. As long as she isn’t naked, it isn’t a crime. Leave them alone.
Though, as for embracing the idea of having to cover up completely from head to toe, I also don’t believe so many Muslim women would be so gung-ho about it like the women in the video. Unless they are serious, diehard practitioners of the Islamic faith or are FORCED to wear them, its just something I couldn’t imagine taking on with fervor. I’m Christian and I don’t wear a cross around my neck or tattoo myself with bible verses. But, again, that just falls into the realm of choice and that’s where it should stay. As for the idea that they’re turning the women into “enlightened French citizens,” I think part of the motivation in passing this law lies in trying to make the non-Muslim French population less uncomfortable. Its not “normal” for them. So what to do people do when they come across the unfamiliar? They either a) learn from it or b) eradicate it. And I think the latter is what’s probably going on here.
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I do not think that France should ban burqas. I think that the only case they could have is if people start robbing stores or banks with burqas on. The wearers of the burqas in the video said they would remove them for identification purposes. By outlawing burqas they would be discriminating against religion; and not just any religion, but one of the most popular religions in the world. I just read an article about a group attempting to get exemption from the DEA for smoking marijuana because they were a religious group. They were rejected by the DEA, which I agree with in that situation because the group was attempting to use their religious status to manipulate the system. From what I gather from the CNN story, those in France that are wearing the burqas are merely abiding by their religious beliefs.
I think it would be pretty farfetched in the United States for similar legislation to be proposed. I think the ACLU and many other groups would be very outspoken against any attempt to ban burqas or similar clothing items. Even with what I perceive to be a negative attitude to Muslims in the U.S., I hope it would be instantly dismissed as unconstitutional.
This sentence in particular concerns me the most, "Burqas are not just an article of clothing, but a symbol that is incompatible with the French Republic". This statement from a French Government official signals a bias and seems like a statement that is meant to mask a personal prejudice that has no place in politics. I would expect something like this from a nation like Uganda which has recently shown that they have little problem discriminating against large groups of their own citizens.
I think it is good that CNN is bringing stories like this to the public. It is important for the people to know what is going on in other countries. I am also glad that things like this are being posted on the blog. Part of what I hoped to get out of this class was more exposure to the various issues racial issues around the world, and posts like this will continue to expand my horizons.
In the same way that the government may ban burqas, I think it is just as wrong for people to be required to cover up. I hope that people just stop trying to control each other in any way. People are capable of making their own choices; the government or relatives should not be involved. I think it is sad that some of the women that are forced to wear burqas against their will may not even know that there are entirely different worlds where people are not treated like that.
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I am quite shocked that the French government is even considering preventing Muslim women from wearing burgas. Wearing a full veil is part of their religion and culture. If the French would prevent Muslim women from wearing burgas, it would be like our government telling us that we weren't allowed to wear clothes that cling to our bodies, low cut shirts, and makeup anymore. If this war put in motion, most of the women in the United States would be at the capital's steps in protest. This is how burgas are for Muslim women. It is what they grew up with as part of their religion and culture. To take away the right of expressing their beliefs and tell them to wear what we think of “normal clothing” would be what a dictator would do. In this case, I think that some of the French government officials should really think about how they would feel if they were forced to change parts of their culture.
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As Sam wrote in the original post, “We are going to turn you into enlightened French citizens.” I wonder what this actually means. What is the so called ideal French citizen? Would you need to dress in one certain jean style, have the same hair cut as everyone else, or even practice the same religion? Even though I have never lived in France, I know that that everyone in this planet is different. We do not all have the same beliefs, clothing styles, living styles, or religions. Every individual is unique. Muslim women and their choice to completely cover themselves up go along with this previous statement. If Muslim women were forced to conform to the French society, what exactly would they wear or act like? They would most likely lose their right to follow their religion along with their dignity of concealing their body. I guess my biggest point that
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I’m trying to make is what that if Muslim women were forced to change how they live there would be no exact mold in which they could be told to fit into. There are very different people that live in France that have different lifestyles and beliefs so the government should not be able to simply say that Muslim women should be a model French citizen because there isn’t one.
If the French government continues to alter the Muslim culture, who knows who could be their next target. The government could go after another religion or certain people that did not fit the ideal characteristics of a French citizen. Jewish men could be told that they would not be able to wear Yamakas because it covers part of their heads or maybe women would not be able to wear pants because pants were technically for men. If the government began to take this approach, almost everyone would be told to be like someone else. In the end, no one would be different. Everyone would be forced into the mold of what the government thinks a citizen should be like.
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What is the french government trying to do with this? These women should be aloud to express themselves and their religion however they want. If they are comfortable wearing their burqas then let them wear their burqas. they aren't doing any harm in it, its not hurting anyone, and the people that are offended from it need to open their eyes a bit to different cultures and religions around them and start accepting it. This is the dress that these women live by who is anyone to tell them they can't wear it? I understand where the French Government is coming from in the sense that the women are not recognizable for things like security cameras or for description of their face, but its not like they refuse to remove the burqa when needed. Keeping these few women from simply practicing their religion in the country they live in is just awful! No one is keeping any of them from doing anything they usually do to practice any of their religions. its simply unfair. I don't know that much about the french government but I do know that no one should be able to outlaw any religious practice. The world is filled with people of all different kinds of beliefs and religions its time to start being tolerant.
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It's always interesting to encounter a double-standard in your own thinking. This occurred when I was considering the moral principles surrounding this proposal by the French government.
My initial thoughts were that the government's primary role in society should be to provide appropriate services to the people, and to regulate conflicts between individuals. In particular, I thought, the government should not be able to regulate the clothing that people wear. Clothing choice, while visible to the public, does not have a significant impact on a person's interactions with others. Who cares if I wear a T-shirt, a long-sleeved shirt, a vest, a parka, a sweater-vest or a robe? If others don't like it, they can look the other way.
Of course there is room for debate on the issue. A shirt with obscene imagery can be seen by children who are unable to consider or cope with it in a healthy fashion. A trench coat can be used to conceal hidden weaponry, which could mean added uncertainty and fear in an area plagued by gang violence. And face coverings such as a ski mask or a burqa can be used to hide one's identity, which could be used to facilitate violent crime.
However, it is my opinion that sweeping regulation is not the answer to such cases. Perhaps a shirt with obscene imagery can be seen by children, but what constitutes "obscene"? Nudity? Satanist text? How about fine art with a nude figure? How about a passage from the Quran? A ban on trench coats would stop people from hiding weapons in trench coats, but what about in baggy shorts? Or thick winter coats? Nothing short of a ban on all clothes except form-fitting jumpsuits would be sufficient to achieve that end. And clearly, as our illustrious professor notes, a ban on face coverings steps on the spiritual journey of some, and the cultural choice of many. In general, I hold that the government should play a minimalistic role in regulating personal choices such as this.
However, I thought again, and I caught myself. If the government should play a minimalistic role in deciding what people can choose to wear, then why should it have the power to dictate a minimal legal level of dress? Why should it be allowed to dictate that public nudity is a crime, but not public burqa-wearing? It's all the answer to the same question: "What should I take out of my closet to wear this morning?" One answer is, "My traditional Muslim garb," while the other is, "Nothing!" I could come up with no logical difference between the two.
And yet I couldn't bring myself to agree that the government should allow public nudity. Call me conservative, but I think that a certain level of propriety is called for in public spaces, in order to promote peace and smooth interpersonal interactions in our society. But then again, that particular judgment is stepping on a group of people, nudists, and I don't feel too great about that. How can I reconcile the two views?
Damned if I don't have an answer for you.
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This article is interesting to me for several reasons. One of the main reasons is that I could learn something by reading it. I am not very familiar with the Jewish religion because of my upbringing. I am Roman Catholic & attended Catholic grade school and high school. I have never heard of or seen tefillin until this article.
This article opened up my eyes to just one of the countless traditions and practices related to all of the religions throughout the world. Reading things likes this makes me want to learn more about others' religious practices that may seem foreign to me, but are normal for many others. Sam described it well when he said its "Strange how there is so much going on in the world that is boringly normal for one group and totally off-the-hook bizzare for another" This article peaked my interest and made me want to learn more and become more aware of what is going on in the world around me. I cannot imagine how diverse people's practices throughout the world may be, when I'm completely unfamiliar with many of the practice of people who live in the same community as me. In the Penn State student body alone there must be hundreds of religions and cultures each with its own traditions and customs.
The young boy and girl who encountered the trouble on the plane set a great example for us to follow. They recognized that the staff on the flight was unfamiliar with their practices and did not judge them for their ignorance. Despite their age, they acted wise beyond their years by not having anger or being offended but by being understanding and cooperative. This is something we can all learn from. We should not judge but be open to others and their practices, and be considerate to the fact that our own practices may seem strange to others.
This incident also brings to light the constant unease of Americans with their safety in-flight. Despite the great measure taken to secure the planes and all of the passengers, Americans are still faced with the troubles caused seven years ago on 9/11. One of the consequences of 9/11 is an uneasiness of Americans with many ethnic groups and different types a people. It is sad to see the negative effects of that day so many years later.
Overall a lot was learned in reading this article. It taught a great lesson in being open to other religions and practices and understanding and appreciating the differences. The world would be pretty boring if we were all lived same way, with the same religion and had the same beliefs and practices. There is no way learn about every religion out there, but even just looking and seeing whats happening in the world close to us can teach us a lot.
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I think that France should not ban burqas, but require these women to remove their face coverings in certain situations. I think not showing your face in certain situations is dangerous. Because of safety reasons, I feel that women should be made to show their faces in certain situations such as when picking up there kids, when purchasing certain things such as bus and plane tickets. When these women cover up there faces completely, they would not be able to be identified if needed to be. This becomes a public danger. They should be able to cover their faces up to a certain degree but if asked to remove it for a specific reason; they should be a made to do so. They should be able to implement their right to cover their faces and bodies as long as it doesn’t harm others, but also be able to identify them by removing their face coverings when appropriate.
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Some of these women wear this garb because they want to and its part of there religion, for the government to tell them that they must stop wearing this garb would probably upset of women, but some would be totally fine with decision. I know that some of the women only wear the burkas because it is there husbands will but I believe that these women should have a choice rather then the government telling them whats right and whats wrong.
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“When in Rome, do as the Romans do” Simple, yet too complicated to follow.
France was considered as a “pioneer” in terms of civil rights, and liberties since the French Revolution. It is sort of self-contradictory that such nation now prohibits one of person’s fundamental rights. “Free Religion.” It may be depending on how the Court of France defines religion and its status as a right and how much of non-French religion’s practices will be allowed. Personally, I feel it is going too out of the boundary because wearing such clothe would not be harmed anyone else unless they hide weapon in those.
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Upon first reading this, I couldn’t believe my eyes. The fact that any government was trying to restrict the clothing choices of its people was unbelievable to me. Wearing clothing is one of the most public ways a person has of expressing themselves. The fact that these women wear clothing much different from the clothing other French people wear shouldn’t matter.
The burqua is a symbol of the Muslim religion. I disagree with this statement of the French politician in the video: “Burqas are not just an article of clothing, but a symbol that is incompatible with the French Republic.” I do not see how a religious article of clothing could be ‘incompatible’ with the French Republic. Does this mean that the French Republic is against the religion or the religion’s religious practices? In the 1789 French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen freedom of religion and thought is included. This includes all beliefs that this religion stands for, all practices the people of that religion practice. I think it is very important that these rights are honored. These are the fundamental beliefs that the entire Republic was built on. It is not acceptable to prevent people of any religion from being able to wear religious clothing of any sort.
I’ve never even heard of a law in which people of a nation are not allowed to wear a certain article of clothing. I’ve heard of laws against wearing too little clothing, but never for wearing something that almost completely covers up the body, running no risk of indecent exposure. On top of that, it’s for religious purposes! I feel as though the government should have little to no say in what goes on religiously in their nation. As long as nobody is getting hurt (which, I could not seem to think of one way somebody could be hurt by the wearing of burqas!) there should be no restriction on religious practices.
If the French government was put in the shoes of these Muslim women they would understand how ridiculous this proposal to ban their clothing is. These women have probably spent their whole lives wearing these burqas, or at least have been accustomed to seeing them worn by women in their families or members of their mosque. To be told that these burqas are never to be worn again, or a fine of $1,000 is given is SO unreal!!
Restricting the freedom of clothing choices could lead to restrictions in many other ways of life. The next thing the French government could ban could be more detrimental than the banning of the burqas. I don’t feel that the government should ever have as much power as the French republic is trying to exercise right now. The fact that Muslim is only second in popularity to Christianity in France just makes this even harder to believe.
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i completely agree with Sam on the subject of just following in the footsteps. just like in America there is a certain way you are supposed to dress and if you don't then you will be the fool. If people would just really think sometimes what they were doing and if it doesn't make them happy then just fix it. Stop caring about wear and be who you want. i found happiness when i stopped wearing clothes just because my friends were wearing them, and it helped me be myself even more in different aspects of my life, and i wish everyone else someday can make that step.
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Are we really “free” to make are own decisions? Or is it that we are “free” to make our own decisions as long as they are the right decisions? Who gets to determine what are right decisions and which ones are wrong? Absolutely, horrifying when you think about it.
A fad here in the United States (and probably other countries as well) is some of the amazing hairstyles that you see. Being older, these Mohawks, “spikey” dos that are often colored pink, purple and green, still strike me as weird when I see it. I am really having a hard time adjusting to this. Why would someone do this to himself or herself? This is not normal. After thinking about it for a while and getting over the initial shock of thinking that this is “just wrong”, I came to the conclusion that it really does call for some respect. These people are pretty bold and seem to be really comfortable wearing their shoes, which is an excellent quality to have. They have no problem being different. However, there are many who do not see it like I do and just feel it is wrong. So, do we need to make a law banning weird hairstyles? No. It does not even occur to us to remove all “weird colored” hair dyes off the market and fine those with “weird” hairdo wearing people $1000. So what is the difference between the burqa and pink spikey hair? Religion? Culture?
The Islamic religious leader in this clip says that there is nothing in the Koran that says that women have to wear burqas. So this is really not a religious thing. It is culture. I did some surfing on the web to try to understand the purpose of the burqa and I found that historically in some places of the Middle East, women of childbearing age were often taken during raids. Covering their faces and bodies made it more difficult for the raiding party to determine the women’s age. Given the historical knowledge, I wonder if women choosing to wear a burqa feel as though it is their security blanket protecting them from the many sexual predators of the world. (By the way, another reason women wore burqas was to protect them from the sand and the wind in the dessert. Just an FYI)
With this enlightenment, it would make more sense to me that the French government should make it mandatory for all women to wear a burqa for their own protection. If the information I read is correct, France has the 3rd highest rape crime rate in the world (behind the US and UK). Of course this is absolutely absurd, but government should be making laws that keep their citizens safe and not laws that are intrusive or discriminatory. They should also reconsider whether their way is “the better way to be”.
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How do you know that these women are just going along for the ride? Maybe they actually do believe in their religion and what it entails. I think most people from the West think that just because they are covered up it is forced on them. I see it more as a way of honoring their culture and past. Americans are so used to scantly clad women in everyday life. That doesn’t mean we should force that way of life on others. Let them do their thing and leave them alone. No wonder they hate us in the Middle East. How would you feel if the way you were dressed was ridiculed because it is different?
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I don’t know how to feel about this issue. In all truth, I’ve always been a little conflicted about the Muslim tradition of wearing the burqa or head coverings. I’m not a Muslim so I recognize that it is really none of my business, but that doesn’t stop me from considering the beliefs behind this practice. Is this tradition really helping Muslim women become more spiritually aware and modest, as it claims? Or is it just another means that a belief system has used to keep women out of power? Or, as is most likely, is it somewhere in between the two extremes?
I think it’s insulting to the Muslim faith to forbid French women from wearing burqas. It’s taking away their right to follow their religious beliefs. Of course, there are women who don’t want to wear burquas, and they should by no means be forced to. However, I find it ridiculous that the French government would mandate clothes in any way. Is there any precedent for this kind of law? Is there any national safety at risk by women choosing to cover their face? Or is the French government just trying to start mandating religious practices (a scary though, although I don’t live in France)?
On the other hand, I don’t think it helps these women to be covered up all the time. Sure, it’s promoting modesty but is it really helping them to wear them all the time? I would imagine that it would be difficult to breathe, see, or move around freely in a full burqa. Once again, I’ve never tried it so I wouldn’t know, but it looks uncomfortable. In warm weather it must be sweltering in one of those. I wish I knew more about the Muslim faith so that I would understand what drives them to wear it. We have fasts for my church sometimes, and I’m sure to outsiders or those who have never fasted, it probably seems odd, but to us it’s a way of being closer to God. Maybe the burqa is like that; something that I shouldn’t disparage before I’ve tried it.
I am definitely biased about this issue, at least a little, because I’m a westerner and a Christian. I, like all Americans, see women wearing little to nothing on MTV and the covers of magazines (and College Ave, if we’re being honest) and it doesn’t even faze me, though perhaps it should. I feel like the way some women dress over here is more demeaning than any burqa. Then again, it’s our right to do so; our religions and our government don’t try to mandate how we dress or what we wear. I think we (western women) are fortunate in that we have the choice to dress how we want. If I learn nothing else from this blog post, which I hope I have, it’s that I should feel fortunate that I can pick how I appear in public without any man or any government trying to legislate my clothing.
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The French government is delusional if it thinks that they can ban Muslim women from wearing barqas. I didn’t know anything about this issue, but I’m sure if the government continues with this bill, there will be a major outrage among women everywhere. The thought that, in today’s society, they could even get away with such a ridiculous law is nonsense. I personally think the French government or any government for that matter cannot and should not be allowed to ban an item of clothing women wear to express a part of their religion. Where does the government even think it has the right to tell anyone how much or what kind of clothing to wear. The women in the video from CNN said they would be willing to show their faces for identification purposes; so therefore, there is no harm in them wearing a full head skirt. These women pose no threat to any person, so the government has no reason to ban such an article of clothing. The government wants the Muslim women to fit in better with society.
to be continued…
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continued… If they don’t have a problem standing out, then why is it a problem at all? We are all against discrimination, yet a government is trying to make Muslim women, some of the most unique women in the world, conform to a certain look. Muslim women wear the barqas as a way to express themselves, and should have the right to do so.The women in the video, and from their prospective most women, wear the abeyya because they want to, not because the men in their lives force them too. One woman said she has friends who wear it against her husband’s wishes. This basically shuts down any argument the government has against male domination over Muslim women. Male domination over women may have started the tradition, but it is now part of their history and has become daily routine for some of them. How is this any different than men of the United States praising barely dressed, almost naked women of our country?
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