posted by Laurie Mulvey
Any thoughts on this? Seems to me to be a question that comes up in just about every race dialogue group that I have ever facilitated–especially if the group has some “brown” participants.
11
Feb
Any thoughts on this? Seems to me to be a question that comes up in just about every race dialogue group that I have ever facilitated–especially if the group has some “brown” participants.
I'm white. And although I cannot speak for everyone, I believe that the majority of us were raised given much knowledge towards slavery and racism with blacks. As a child I learned early on what slavery was. My parents tried to instill in my siblings and I, some sort of awareness and sympathetic attitude. They wanted me to be cautious before I nonchalantly questioned someone's skin color, as any child might do. I don't think I was the only one. In America, the long lasting conversation between blacks and whites continues because we are made aware of it as children. Perhaps other children were exposed to racist grandparents and older generations who lived through the discrimination and segregation. Whether the knowledge between blacks and whites is good or bad, it still involves stories and ideas that are stressed to younger generations. I was once this young generation, but now growing older and making more children aware of our past. (Keeping in mind that the only way to have history not repeated is by knowing of it.)
Much of us don't know that slavery still exists today. We don't know the painful stereotypes that exist in the thousands of other race and ethnicity groups out there. No other conversation between two races seems prevalent and important to us. Maybe it's because it didn't involve us whites. The last time we had an issue with another race was us intruding on the Native Americans. Except it wasn't really an issue. We came in and took over. There was no battle, there was only domination. Perhaps the conversation between blacks and whites would not be as strong of a topic if the African Americans hadn't put up such a fight. If slavery still existed today, it wouldn't be blacks vs. whites. It would be the white man and his plantation full of 'animals.' As they were treated. Blacks fought for themselves. And they are still fighting today. As Sam said in class, just because slavery ended didn't mean blacks became just as equal. With the white man still on top, blacks have yet to receive a fair chance. We never all started on the same page. And this 'conversation' between blacks and whites will not end unless we all do.
It's also possible that this topic of 'whites and blacks' continues because we have an internal fear of one another. Blacks are aware of the damage and pain that their ancestors have faced because of the whites. A fear that something like this could re-occur must be a living nightmare. Afraid to admit it, or still holding a grudge against the white population, blacks remain wary of the whites. And we too, aware of the horrific things we have done in the past might fear that their grudges may grow to something more powerful and revengeful. Perhaps it's fear that separates us, and keeps this conversation going.
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I have never thought in a daily basis, it comes down to a conversation between black and white people. I believe that what Laurie Mulvey said was right about the conversation is always about “black and white” people. I believe the one primary reason is that blacks were struggling to gain their freedom and equal rights. It has been going on since the beginning of slavery till now. I believe that there is still tension being built up between black and white people. Both races have been talking negatively about each other. It feels like they are living in their own different worlds and they will always think that they will be better than the other. Now, I feel like there is something wrong here. We just not have only two races living in America. Besides blacks and whites, we have Latino, Asians, Native Americans, and etc. living in this country. But it feels like there is one reason why people stereotype black and white people only. The one reason is that when some white person reads a newspaper about how there was a murder in some low class neighborhood, and then the conversation would lead to race. I also feel that when people are having a normal conversation, if they do not know the person’s name, they would say “that white skinny girl” or “that black boy that sits behind us in class.” What is big right now is that we have Obama, the first black president in the United States. Black and white people are going to bring it up in a conversation later on. When I think back when I was young, I learned about slavery, and civil rights movements. My teacher barely covers the Vietnam War, or other race related events. It feels like all we cover is about how white people treated black people badly and they would have this conversation will they day they die. I feel like Latino, Asians, Native Americans, and etc. are being left out and I cannot picture what their reactions are about it. I can definitely understand how black people have to go through so much hatred and they had to fight so hard to get their freedom and equal rights. Even though black people are still giving their all to have their voices heard, I still feel that there are people that are racist to black people. If black people did get their freedom and equal rights, then why are people still holding grudges against them? I understand that black and white people have gone through so much but it has been way too long and they should at least find a way to make peace. I am not saying they never will ; I guess it takes more time than I thought…
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I'd have to disagree with Laurie Mulvey on her statement that slavery isn't why there is this tension and social segregation between whites and blacks; I feel that when there is tension that it usually goes back to what happened in our country one hundred and fifty years ago. One of the primary reasons why I think this issue has become more prominent in recent years is because African Americans and Africans and other black skinned people have become more and more involved and respected in our society, and there are still racist people that refuse to accept that this is starting to become normal.
Although other ethnic groups in the United States like Latinos, Asians, and Arabs have also risen in our society in the work place as well as in social atmospheres, I believe that white Americans do not feel guilt towards those groups apposed to the guilt they feel for African Americans. Slavery could definitely be described as the biggest tragedy our country has ever confronted along with our destruction to the lives of Native Americans, and I really feel that white people in our country that aren't racist always have that memory in the back of their heads when they are in the presence or dealing with African Americans.
While I’m in the realm of racism, I feel that racism in our country is still mostly directed towards African Americans; of course there are jokes and vulgar language aimed at other ethnic and religious groups but African Americans are (from my experiences) the main target. This has become such a touchy subject over the past decades because it still hasn’t really been acknowledged and discussed by our country as a whole; white people has there own views and opinions and African Americans the same. I don’t know if one of these groups need to step up and address this situation but something has needs to be done.
People need to realize that we are all human beings and share a planet (and in this case a country) and we usually share the same common goal. The fact that this issue is still present irritates me more than anything. I have many African American friends and color and race has never been a problem in our friendships; I think the reason for this is because of how we know each other and realize that we are the same people. Although over the past years this subject has calmed down and the public has been able to joke and laugh about this topic, I still feel that African Americans are the group that takes the most criticism and ridicule. Maybe our country will never fully accept people that don’t look exactly us, but hopefully it will come to a point where it isn’t at the center of controversy.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. The reason we always go back to black and white is because of the whole civil rights movement. Blacks were the largest discriminated group. I know there were other groups that were discriminated, but they were more or less concentrated in particular areas. For instance, Native Americans have their reservations, which are mostly located in the central to western parts of the US. So the majority of the United States is unaware of their existence. The black community, on the other hand occupied most of the United States because the slave trade brought large amounts of them to nearly every part of the country. They had a strong presence in our society, and when slavery ended, it brought upon a quick shift in their freedom. This shift happened too quickly that the white people felt threatened and implemented many standards that discriminated the black community. Now, I could be wrong, and the education system might be at fault for this, but I have never heard of any other race being required to sit in the back of the bus, or having special water fountains. The black community, I’d say, had it the worst out of any other racial group. At least in the United States that is. Because they had it so bad, and it was on such a large scale, that their civil rights movement went so public. As Laurie stated, we saw their struggle. We never saw anyone else’s. We have a holiday based on the black civil rights movement (Martin Luther King Jr. Day). We also set aside a whole month to pay tribute to the black man’s struggle (Black History Month). So when racial discussions arise, It’s no wonder that we almost always go back to black and white. All we have to work with is our knowledge of black discrimination, but I would like to purpose a question. Is it a bad thing if we generalize all discrimination into black and white issues? Discrimination is simply defined as treating a group differently because of their race. So whether you are on a reservation (Native Americans), stereotyped as being lazy (Mexicans), or automatically assumed to be a terrorist (Arabs), you are none the less being treated differently and black history can be used as an example when the topic of racial discrimination comes up. I don’t personally see it as a problem because it’s the best way we here in the United States can empathize and make sense of the other racial groups’ struggles. I do think, however, that the education system needs to update their curriculum to open the American people’s eyes to other racial discrimination going on in the country so that we maybe more aware, and more empathetic to each individual’s struggle.
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The issue of black and white has always been a prevalent and complex topic in race conversations because many obvious conflicts and underlying factors play into the racism debate. Many people tend to relate racism to black people and white people because of slavery, rather than branching out to other groups of individuals, such as, Native Americans, Asians, and Indians. Like Laurie Mulvie stated in her video, it could be because in our generation, we have focused mostly on black people and slavery and the fact that many white people were the slave owners. Thinking back to my high school history classes, it’s surprising that we rarely focused on issues regarding Native Americans or Asians who were victims of inhumane acts as well as black people. I recall brief lectures about the Native American struggles and the Walk of Tears that forced them from their homelands, but black people and slavery usually consumed most of the lectures regarding racism. We quickly covered these topics, and moved on to our next lecture, leaving out much detail that would explain what had happened more in depth. Obviously racism should not be ignored and more focus should be placed on other groups of people, but for unclear reasons, this conversation is often steered away from. In addition, out of all the minority groups in the United States, blacks make up much more of the population when compared to Native Americans. Because of this, the issues between blacks and whites tend to arise more often than the conflicts that occurred between Native Americans and white people many years ago. Many black people tend to bring up the topic of how their people were treated poorly, which makes it more difficult to move on and try to correct what was previously done. On television and in newspapers, the media regularly covers stories about race issues between whites and blacks. Whether it’s celebrating the birthday of Martin Luther King Jr. and his contributions to black rights for the African American society or a present issue where an individual has been affected by racist slurs or actions, the issue always seems to come back to black and white. Instead of mainly focusing on these two groups of people, schools should teach about the struggles of Native Americans and other groups, including brown people. It is important to understand the history of our nation and the history of other nations. The struggles that Native Americans endured are part of our nation’s history and people should be informed about the events that unfolded before our time. Rather than focusing on slavery alone, a school’s curriculum should be more diversified and cover more issues that our nation has dealt with. If this were to happen, people would be more aware of important issues that have shaped our nation’s history.
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I have several feelings on the topic of conversation on black and white people. First off I agree with what a few people said above about the fact that the topic of blacks and whites is bound to come up when talking about race relations. I think there are several reasons that this happens. One would be that there absolutely is a history between blacks and whites due to slavery and the civil rights movement. America has had a great deal of times where it has been blacks verse whites. I think that when you look at a larger time line you will realize that it was just recently since African Americans have been given equal rights. It is also just recently that blacks and whites have begun living, working, and cooperating side by side with one another. Getting back to the fact that blacks and whites are always brought up in the conversation of race relations in my opinion is a good thing. Like my mother always says you need to talk about things that bother you and that you are dealing with. You can not keep your emotions and feelings bottled up inside because it is not healthy. It is healthy that people discuss blacks and whites so often as they do because clearly the blacks are truly disturbed and bothers by what happen to their ancestors. I believe that the more people talk about it the better it is going to get for everyone. The black people will become less angry and have less hatred towards the whites. Black people will realize that even though slavery still exists in some places and that some people are still racists most white people are not and they want to be friends. Black people will understand that the majority of white people are just as mad and annoyed at what happened with slavery as they are. I think as years pass people will slowly talk about blacks and whites less often. I think that this will happen because people are becoming more and more excepting. I know that slavery will always remain a very large and sad piece of history of the United States of America but I think that as the generations go on it will not be as hurtful on a personal note. People, both black and white, will be one. I hope that this does happen. I know it is unlikely that blacks and whites will be seen as one because of their skin color but i hope that it does happen. I hope that color just literally is seen as color and that no prejudices come with it. As said in class people are genetically 99.9% alike and only .01% different due to our appearance. What is on the outside says absolutely nothing about the person inside and I truly believe that.
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I agree that it is mostly due to the longstanding history between white people and black people that their relationship is the most discussed race-relations topic. Although the word slavery often comes up when the white vs. black subject arises, I don’t believe that that is the sole reason why we currently have issues. I believe that it is rooted in more recent events, such as segregation and the Ku Klux Klan, because the types of views that extremists shared back then are still felt by some ignorant, racist people today. In spite of this, I don’t think most people have racist opinions. I think most people work hard and, regardless of color, have the same problems and worries as everyone else does about jobs and bills and things. But we spend more time thinking about how we are different. As a nation, we can’t get past the combination of hurt and injustice that came from slavery and segregation and the reasons for the Civil Rights Movement.
It’s unfortunate that we still have to talk about race issues and how we just can’t be comfortable with differences in this day and age, but that’s the way it is and nobody seems to be able to satisfy the needs of others. My mother often tells me about an event back when I was in kindergarten. I was trying to point out a new friend of mine who happened to be black. I made it difficult for her to identify him standing with other boys even though he was the only black person in my class. For some reason I didn’t think to say he was the boy with dark skin. I know now that it’s not unusual for young children to overlook something adults find obvious, but there’s a message in there somewhere, I think. It probably will never happen, but I wish that skin color was so little of an issue that it never needed to be mentioned or used to identify a person, just like it was in kindergarten when we knew nothing of our “differences.”
I rarely hear discussions or debates about race issues that involve white people and any race other than black people. Although white people have some kind of history with just about all races, those relationships don’t seem as personal and long lasting as the relationship was and still is with black people. Our history seems to be tenser and filled with more distrust … not by everyone, but those who feel this way also seem to be vocal and emotional and get attention.
I hope that we will eventually look past our race issues and focus on things we have in common instead.
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Finally, we always use black vs white, what about the Orientals and Middle Easterners. The same ethnicities that killed thousands of Americans in the worst two attacks on US soil ever recorded. Or how about during WWII when we put Japanese Americans into internment camps. These issues fall by the way side because everyone still focuses on black vs white and until that gets resolved so many other issues will never be addressed.
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I absolutely agree. I also find that, at least in the United States, race relations discussions will always ultimately find its way back to the age-old tug-of-war between the whites and the blacks. In America, we are exposed to the plight of the African-American from an early age; in elementary school, I recall celebrating Black History Month every February, and being taught about America's history with slavery in grades as early as Kindergarten. I read books about African-American children and their struggles to attend all-white schools during our nation's period of segregation in first grade. I heard phrases such as "Civil Rights Movement" and "Jim Crow Laws" by the time middle school rolled around. In short, I have been reminded of the white race's awful history and volatile relationship with the African-American race all through my formal education without fail. On the flip side, I don't recall ever hearing about other minorities- Asians, Latinos/Hispanics, Middle Easterners, etcettera- except for maybe once or twice. I heard about Asian immigrants for the first time in middle school when we began discussing the California Gold Rush in 1849. They resurfaced once again when we began World War II discussions and subsequent discussions about internment camps. I actually don't recall hearing about Latino/Hispanic history at all, come to think of it. And people from the Middle East? Yeah, we didn't talk about them at all until my senior year of high school, and that was only because we read The Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini and my teacher's happened to deem it "relevant."
My point is, that people who have grown up in this country have been bombarded with the stories of struggle and hardship experienced by its African-American citizens, but have rarely been taught about the other races, that also inhabit our country, with anywhere near as much detail or passion.
So, in short, it's not surprising at all, (to me, at least,) that race relation discussions always find their way into the realm of Black People versus White People. The greatest struggle we've encountered domestically, after all, was the power struggle between White people and Black people, and we've never forgotten about it, because we've always been taught about it. Even discussions about other races can be compared to the White-and-Black relations in America. So, whenever race becomes the topic of discussion, the most vivid lessons we have learned throughout our lives come to light. Makes enough sense to me.
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It interesting to recognize that, no matter what, race relations conversations almost always tend to come back to “black” and “white.” I mean I am not exactly sure why, but it seems unfortunately true. Who really knows? There has been a great amount of controversy and tension that has and will continue to exist. It is not that the plight of perhaps the Native American, Asian or Muslim is not significant, but somehow, for some reason, it is all about “black” and “white”
Also, there is a lot of truth behind what Sam mentions regularly in class – that white people kind of sit and kick back at “the race table” so they can see how things initially turn out and whatnot.
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I never really looked at any of this with this type of insight before, funny how it took so long to raise the question; why is it always black and white? She brought up Native Americans and in today’s world, we probably treat them worse than most other cultures, and yet the feud between blacks and whites have carried this far as to overshadow some of their own actions against other cultures.
When you type slavery into google all you get is pictures of blacks and whites, but yet at a time Native Americans were slaves too. No one ever depicts that side of it, and it’s overwhelming that this black and white mess can still overshadow it all.
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Laurie brought up some good points in the video. The black white relationship is definitely more significant than other racial relationships in America, and I think the reason lies in the historical significance of slavery and the civil rights movement. The Africans that were brought over against their will to the United States to work as slaves is a significant and undeniable part of American history. There was also a lot of harsh discrimination towards blacks that followed even after slavery was abolished that is considered much worse than the slavery itself.
Its seems as though the capturing of slaves along with the harsh discrimination carried out was a bad blunder, or bad karma on the part of our ancestors that is still being worked on in this country to this very day. It is as if the people who brought these large amounts of slaves over didn’t realize that they have to live with these people, and that these slaves are not going to be happy with you, especially if you are going around claiming that this country is the land of the free and equal. The founders of America took them from their homes banking on the idea that slavery in America was going to work, but it didn’t, which is why, I think, discrimination got worse. It seemed to be an attempt at suppressing blacks after realizing they have a voice and they were upset, and they could be a threat to the old ways of business. The Americans were the ones who brought them over here against their choosing and now they would have to deal with them themselves.
The blacks had a lot of power in this country during those times mainly because they had been screwed over so badly, they wanted their rights, and because blacks gained more and more attention as discrimination got worse. The discrimination got so bad in this country that the only option at that point seemed to be a revolution or civil war. The media played a role by capturing some of the horrific scenes that took place during the fifties. These powerful images show real human suffering and struggle, the result of one race trying to be above another.
The civil rights movement was one of, if not the most important historical event in American history. The figures that characterized the movement spoke of universal freedom and basic human rights and it was truthful, powerful, and undeniable. Regardless of what race you are or what country you are from the words and the message spoken by some of the leaders of the civil rights movement held a significant truth and timelessness. Black History Month and Martin Luther King Day are now celebrated and remembered in this country for that reason alone.
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I think this topic is very interesting. I never really thought about it before, but it is very true that whenever race gets brought up it ends up being about blacks and whites. Whenever we did race relations or when I am in sections for class I find myself always thinking about blacks and whites. When I think of someone being racist, I immediately think of blacks and whites. That is kind of changing now that I am taking this class, but it is still the first thing I think of. I think for me part of the reason is that I have grown up with no much diversity what so ever. I have not encountered many people of another race, and usually when I do, they are black.
I think it is interesting to analyze the question as to why that is the case. I do have to agree that the main reason is because there is such a deep history between the two races. There has been an issue between the races going back a long ways and no one forgets that. There has not been an issue like the civil rights movement with any other race therefore I do not think overall that there is that much of a problem between us and another race. I think that some people have a hard time forgetting about slavery and they do not accept the fact that it happened a long time ago and we no longer have anything to do with it. People in today’s age should not be feeling guilty, or anger towards anyone because we did not live through that time period and we did not have those harsh feelings that they had.
I also think that a big part of why this is the case is because the civil rights movement was stressed greatly in middle school and high school curriculum, at least in my school, and so we are more knowledgeable about it. We know the struggles they went through to gain their rights and respect that they for the most part have now. Also, we have Martin Luther King day and also black history month. I just feel that with the emphasis our country has on blacks it just becomes nature for us to automatically think about that whenever race is brought up.
There are many whites that still feel the guilt from the things that happened with our ancestors and there are many blacks that still judge the whites for it. People are very sensitive to racism and accuse people of it all the time when it is not needed. I am always scared to offend the blacks and that they will think I am racist when that is indeed not the case. I just think that the way we have been brought up learning about it has made it so we naturally think of the black and white issue.
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I think that this topic is going to become so repeated that eventually most of our opinions about this are going to be one in the same. Because of the history of the United States mainly with the civil war, civil rights movement, and general black oppression is why most issues end up being judged with a black and white colors. Black people have been repeatedly put down and held down in this country since its inception. First we have the civil war which then led to the civil rights movement almost a century later. During the history of the U.S., black people have played the most substantial role as a minority in this country besides Hispanics. Blacks have had the most light shed upon their situations plus have had the most national attention. Only recently have other minority mishaps start to surface as real problems. I agree with the lady in the video with her saying that the civil rights movement was more influential than the overall slave trade. The civil rights movement really reduced or cancelled out any barriers that made the black person a second class citizen. These were hard changes that many people did not feel comfortable with. The relations between the races after the civil rights movement were tense and a lot more different than ever before. All of a sudden blacks somewhat had the rights of whites in a white dominated society that was not very welcoming of these changes. Because of all this is why I think topics or discussions will always come down to a black skin color or white skin color talk. Black people have a right to question everything that can potentially affect them in this country(laws, bills, etc). White people or the white man will always have the image of a lesser form of a tyrant when it comes to oppression of minorities. I feel as though white people can never shake themselves of this image. The election of president obama adds to this issue. Now that there is a black president that is actually smarter then the last guy who was in office for the last 8 years is a concept that rationally ignorant people cannot grasp. They still look at skin color as if it makes a difference, and because of this the president being black only adds to anything that he does because now it needs to be compared to himself(black people) and then to the rest of America. Well I think that overall in America it is just normal to compare and judge. It is something that Americans grow up learning how to do. We judge everything and everyone based on every single imperfection or insignificant detail that we can muster. It’s the mindset we grow up with, fighting back or comparing everything to everything, instead of only trying to do whats best for ourselves.
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I agree that we (black people and white people) have a history based on slavery. However, I do not think that the issue is solely based on slavery. I think that there is a lot more to it. I think it is pretty safe to say that a great majority of white people are ashamed that the United States let such a horrible act occur in our history. I think that a lot of times, white people may be hesitant to communicate with black people because the issue between races has not been solved. In the real world everyone is not treated equally. There are still inequalities that have not been fixed. Like we discussed in our lecture last Thursday, black people have had to overcome so many obstacles before they can even get to the same level white people start at. That is not fair at all. The United States supposedly believes that everyone should be given equal opportunities; however, this does not seem to happen in the real world. If everyone was given equal opportunities, then the chart that shows income among ethnic groups would not have major differences distributed among those groups. I think that it is great that we had civil rights movements in America, but I feel like the recurring thought of slavery still weighs too heavily on our conscious, causing us to feel different, and causing people to go back to the black v. white when it comes to the multicultural conversation. Slavery is something that we will never be able to look past because there is nothing we can do to make up for the fact that it happened. Every effort to achieve equality will not make up for the fact that blacks were enslaved. There is uneasiness on both sides. There’s an unfounded guilt among whites because slavery did happen and it is obvious that blacks have been mistreated and a lot of white people feel uncomfortable talking to black people because there is a huge uncertainty of how black people view white people. For example, do the black people still think that all whites are guilty, or only the ones in the south, or are they mad about civil rights, or they do not care and have moved passed the issue. The fact that there is such a misunderstanding on both sides about what the other people are thinking makes the discussion gear towards black and white because no one knows what the other race thinks exactly about it. There is a giant misunderstanding on both sides so everyone talks about it because they want to know. There are unresolved differences between races. I think that it is all a combination of lack of civil rights, unequal opportunities, and mistreatment.
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I feel like there are so many people who dwell so much on whether you are white and black. I agree with what was said that the beginning of the class about how there are so many occasions where we as whites would like to speak up but we are always so tentative about it because we don’t want to offend. There are always blacks and other races that are willing to speak up and give their side but there are rarely people who are white who will choose to fight back. Sometimes I find it difficult to phrase what I would like to say about race topics and so I choose to say nothing at all which I think is the same for many people.
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I believe that there are many reasons that race debates usually result in "black and white" arguments. A lot of the time that this occurs, it is because of ignorance. Not necessarily intentional, however some people were just raised in a different way and have a somewhat persuaded view of the world. Many have grown up in households that subtly put into the mind that "racial groups" are superior than others. Many times, schooling doesn't teach it. For instance i went to a school in Brooklyn where not many graduated. Kids were constantly scared of the fact that they are missing the necessary credits to graduate. This resulted in the kids that are in danger, recovering the necessary ones, while the students who were academically safe, were taking the classes that really provoked thought. My AP English class centered around African American studies and literature. It was amazingly eye-opening. The readings opened my eyes at the history white and black people have. It showed me why people sometimes act in an irrational manner, however, it also made me know how to act correctly and think correctly in the middle of Brooklyn as a light skinned, mixed kid. The class was great for us, however, while we were learning so much about the world in a new way, there were kids who were sweating to make up gym credits and graduate.
I think a lot of it stems from bad blood and held grudges. People need to let go at some point. We cannot forget, but we need to let go. People have had it just as worse in history yet we hold the longest lasting grudge of them all. The media played such a major part in it all that things continued to escalate. Make no mistake that the things that happened were horrible. However, what part did the white kid in your class play? what part did the black kid play? We had nothing to do with it. We shouldnt be blamed for the actions of our ancestors. There are whites who even during the civil rights movement supported equal treatment, and integration. However its become so dissolved in our view of "the battle between white and black." were always trying to one-up each other and it needs to stop. We imply in our words that we have to compete against one another just to live everyday. "you cant jump white boy" is something i hear everyday at the IM building, and once i show them i can they all raise their eyebrows. W e shouldnt have to think this way. After Obama was elected into office rap artist Young Jeezy made a song called " My President Is Black." A song that i couldnt see the importance for, it wasent a Race campaign, it was a politicial campaign, so why do we celebrate a milestone while implying competition?
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I think she brings up a very good point. There are several instances in today’s society that we provide reasons for our actions based on colors of skin. Ultimately, it usually comes down to two different colors of skin- black and white. But does everything really have to be black and white? What about the browns, the yellows, the purples, etc.? I’ve been told that the worst thing you can do is call a white person a racist, so if for some instance a person becomes at a disadvantage in a situation, and that person happens to be black, people tend to use the reasoning that the person is at a disadvantage simply because they are black. Speaking from someone of the white race, this becomes a hard situation because a lot of times, the white person will not know what to say to defend themselves. White tends to be the dominant skin color in today’s society, and I really do believe that it has to do with the history of slavery, and the civil rights movement. During those two times in our country’s history, we saw the black race struggle against the white race. I believe that this separation of races, or distinguishing of sides has originated from these two movements because of how much emphasis was placed on colors of skin. Looking back on our history, it really does seem that the two most conflicting races are blacks and whites, but more recent, the war occurring today makes me think about how our country may be affected in the future with races as we begin to see the middle easterners struggle for acceptance in America. People have begun to use the Middle Easterners and Arabs as scapegoats. The “whites” or Americans are beginning to place blame on countries such as Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan. When we cannot seek peace between the human race, rather than taking the blame and accepting that we are a white supremacist society, we look to accuse others. When a plane crashes or a building falls, we as Americans, whether we will admit it or not, immediately assume that it was because of terrorists or radical Islamic from the Middle East. The same when someone is shot and killed in the city, or a store is robbed, it’s always a black man right? Or isn’t it. Our generation has seen first hand the struggle between America and the Middle East, and now we may have a similar view of the Middle Eastern people as we do of the black culture. Being black is no longer a race it’s a trend. We judge the race of someone by the way they dress or the way they speak. Whether it’s a fitted cap or a turban, is the white way the right way?
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This is the first post by Laurie that I’ve read and commented on. She brings up a really good point by acknowledging that race discussions always seem to only revolve around black people and white people. It makes you wonder why we don’t consider other groups, such as Latinos and Latinas, Asians, and Mexicans in these racial discussions.
I’m pleased to say my group’s discussions haven’t been overly-centered on the differences between whites and black. However, I would argue that my group has concentrated on one racial group in particular- Latinos and Latinas. This is understandable to an extent, because my section consists of a few white students along with a smattering of Latinos and Latinas, so it’s the most pertinent racial group to my group. However, I would love it if we mixed it up a bit and discussed something along the lines of the relationship between blacks and Asians, or Asians and Hispanics. It would be really interesting to discuss how these racial groups view one another- to add a little variety to your stereotypical racial discussions.
Laurie’s connection between our “typical” racial discussions and the civil war was particularly intriguing to me. We have such a history of black and white segregation in our country that we seem to neglect the fact that other minorities also face racism today. Certainly black people have suffered at the hands of white people in the past, no one can dispute that point. However, racism today covers a broad spectrum of minorities and it’s crucial that we don’t neglect them when we discuss these issues in our group conversations.
Laurie’s post definitely has me considering our stance on racial discussions. I hope this is something that we can talk about in my group this week, to see what other minorities think of this. As a white person, I would love to hear what black people think of this post and whether or not they agree that we should expand our discussions to include additional minorities.
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Like many of the posts before me have mentioned, I believe the issue always goes back to black and white because of the history as well as because people feel they are on 2 completely different sides of the spectrum and all the other races sort of fall into place somewhere in between them. I don't see the reason in this because there are many other races who have their own racial issues, but our infatuation with finding and exploiting the differences between white and black people is extreme. I feel like people are so quick to assume that a white person who has something negative to say about a black person is automatically labeled a racist and you will see the person retract their statement faster than you can say "did he/she just say that?" But if that same person was to comment on another race, it would barely make a splash unless if that comment was gender-charged which is a whole completely different issue on its own.
I truly wish people can just loosen up and realize that it's not just "black and white" issue. How can we move forward if people keep holding on to the past. We all know that slavery was a horrific horrific and downright cruel, but for some of the African Americans who continue to hold a grudge should really do some history before they start hating all "White people for bring us down." What people hardly know is that, yes hundreds of thousands of slaves were sent to the west, but how many people really know that before, Africans were being enslaved by their own kind? Of course Europeans had a role in this, when they offered to guns and other items to these Kings and rulers of certain tribes in Africa for their prisoners, some of the African rulers jumped at the idea of being more powerful than the other tribes. Of course they weren't told that they were being jipped and that the weapons that they were exclusively theirs was also being given to their enemies. This is just a small part of African history, but it's also very revealing about the very nature of the people. We talked about the King of the Mountain game in class on Thursday, and this is a prime example of it.
I'm not saying that african americans shouldn't feel any resentment towards white people, what they want to do is their own business. My parents are both African and I can honestly say that it helps to know what you're fighting for when you know the whole story.
Every race has an issue, I know that's a pessimistic way of looking at things, but it's true. There's not a single race that can get by today. White people may like to THINK that they have it easy, and in some cases they do, but then there's that constant reminder of how they messed up every other race. It's like the "white man's burden" coming back to bite them in the ass!
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I agree that one reason it always comes down to whites and blacks is because blacks were/are at the forefront of the civil rights movement, but I don't think this is the only reason. I think the other reason is that Africans were the ones who were slaves, not Hispanics, not Asians, and not any other foreign group who came here. Along with Native Americans, blacks have been given the shortest end of the stick in this country. I think the reason why we don't hear more about the Native American struggle is because so much of that population was wiped out by disease and because for the most part, whites did not enslave Native Americans and so there wasn't as much interaction and cohabitation between whites and natives as there was between whites and blacks.
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I would first like to respectfully disagree with the point that slavery did not start because of racism between blacks and whites: racism is as old as time itself. And what conversation do we even seem to be discussing here? Racism, inequality or discrimination: racially motivated or otherwise? These three have differences that are far from subtle. If we are talking about race, I think that we in the United States especially have this tendency to lean towards duality. In the racial spectrum of things we, more often than not, compare two poles to each other: black and white. It does not follow that blacks and whites are different from each other in characteristics separate from color. Democrats and Republicans. Left and right. Right and wrong. And of course, black and white.
I feel like it is the case that the conversation about race in the United States tends to funnel down to "black versus whites". Is this pattern seen in different countries?
On the very first day of the Sociology 119 recitation on the third week of classes I met with our small group of twenty or so people. The class consisted of a majority of white people, peppered with three people of color, including myself. By the end of the class, even after all the stimulating discussion, I couldn’t help but remember the comment of one young white female in the class: “I wish there were a black person in here with us.” I couldn’t help but analyze deeper into what that comment could possibly mean. Are the opinions of brown people, Asian Americans, less valued than that of blacks? Is the assumption that the opinion of blacks will always be the opposite of those on the “white team”?
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I agree with a lot of what Laurie brings up in her video. When I was first contemplating why so much of the discussion and publicity is about the relationship between whites and blacks, as opposed to other racial or ethnic groups, my mind first thought it was due purely to the length of time that whites and blacks have struggled in this country. However, the poor, oppressive, violent relationship between whites and American Indians began far before the time of slavery. Additionally, controversy over land and ownership between white Americans and Hispanic Mexicans was ongoing before, during, and after the time of slavery. The length of racial relationships does not seem to be the factor at play.
Additionally, as Laurie points out, the answer may not simply lie within an explanation of black slavery. It would be hard to argue what type of oppression, committed by whites in America, has been worse than others, justifying one racial relationship to garner all of the discussion. For example, who is to say that slavery was worse than the killings of so many American Indians by whites? The situations are too different to compare. Thus, I don't think the answer lies in slavery alone either.
So I think the reason why the conversation gravitates toward simply white and black is a result of a combination of factors, discussed by Laurie in this video and by Sam in class. Laurie briefly states in this video that the Civil Rights Movement shed light on the hardships and issues faced by African Americans. No social movement to this degree has ever been carried out by another racial group. Thus, blacks started a dialogue that continues to this day, unmatched by any from a different racial group.
Additionally, as Sam discussed in class, the outcomes from the abolition of slavery actually created a series of events that continued to keep blacks oppressed in our country. Having no homes or land, and few rights, freed slaves had a huge disadvantage in a country where the playing field was continuously unequal for blacks and whites. This playing field, in my opinion, is still not equal today. The complex series of events that occurred between whites and blacks living in the same geographical areas striving to move forward in the aftermath of slavery and at the time of segregation, contributed both to the continued oppression of blacks, but also lead to the start of the Civil Rights Movement itself.
After dwelling over this issue and writing out my thoughts, I definitely think Laurie nailed it in her video. The effects of the Civil Rights Movement – the discussions, political correctness, advocacy, and hard feelings that resulted – are what continue to lead the discussion between blacks and whites today.
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It's funny to me that this video was posted here because I was just thinking this exact same thing during my discussion group a week or so ago. What Mrs. Mulvey is saying regarding the constant necessity of black and white people to discuss the relationship between us is actually dead-on. Although slavery probably has a pretty large role in why this is the case, I don't think it's the main reason.
When you think about the most "discriminated against" race, there's no doubt that most people will say black people. This, in part, could be traced black to slavery, or the fact that black people weren't given right to vote or do any of the same things that white people had the opportunity to do until much more recently. On the other hand, when you look at the most ubiquitous and least discriminated against race in The United States, white people are probably the first racial group to come to mind.
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When discussing race relations, we often try to choose two extremes, and put them up against each other and see what happens. Because I feel as though white and black people are these two extremes in terms of how discriminated against we are, this is probably one of the main reasons it is so fascinating to discuss how we interact with one another.
Coming from a prominently white town, I never really had much diversity in my life as far as interacting with people of different racial backgrounds. In my high school of over 2500 people, there were no Asians, no Hispanics, and a whopping 3 black people. The rest were literally all white. Until I came to college, I had never really spoken with any people of races other than white, so when I began meeting people of a variety of racial backgrounds, I was curious to see if it would be any different than interacting with white people as I had my entire life. Aside from some accents and skin color, these people were no different than any other person I would have met from my high school.
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As far as customs and culture goes, I would even venture as far as to say that black people are far more like white people than say Asians or Hispanics. I had a black roommate last year, and I currently have
an Asian roommate, so I've had the opportunity to live with three different races (including my white family), and I find the Asian culture way more different from white culture than black culture.
I would like to have the opportunity in one of my discussion groups to discuss cultures aside from just mainly black and white, because from my personal experiences with an Asian roommate, I have the opportunity to see how our cultures differ severly in some ways, while they're identical in others. It's funny to see how white culture coincides with black culture in some ways, and Asian culture in completely different ways. I'm sure the same could be said about Native American, Hispanic, etc. cultures, but I'm just talking about my personal experience living with both a black student and an Asian student.
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In conclusion, I agree with Laurie Mulvey that not only is the black vs. white conversation more prominent in my discussion groups than any other racial topic, but also that it stems from the history of our country. Placing the most disciminated race against the least discriminated race is an excellent way to see how our country is progressing in terms of racial acceptance. In doing so, we can see that the racial barriers that once existed in our country are almost completely diminished, and will soon no longer exist at all. Although it's not a bad thing that we constantly engage in this debate, we should in reality switch it up and see how races other than black and white interact with each other. In some cases, I'm sure blacks and whites are far more similar than two other races that exist in the world today.
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I did notice that many times during our discussions about race, it always ends up being about black and white. In our discussion groups and even during Sam's lectures, we busy ourselves with talking about the struggles among blacks and whites. Of course, Sam does mention “brown people,” but it always takes up so little and insignificant amount of time than it does with blacks and whites. But then again, even when discussing American history, it is so rare that the history books and teachers talk about the others – Asians, Latinos, Hispanics, and etc. – whoever they may be. I think, the biggest reason for many race discussions turning into a discussion of white versus black, is due to the long impactful history the struggle embedded into American history.
I do agree with what other posters said about it being inevitable. American history has been so occupied with slavery and emancipation of slaves, and rightfully so, that there has been so little time to talk about the browns. There is just so much to talk about with slavery and problems that arose from slavery, that it is easy to get caught up in talking about it. The dispute between blacks and whites have been so great. It, however, does make me wonder why the browns have never really made a great impact in American history. As an Asian American myself, I wanted to bring this idea up in my discussion group – actually, my friend and I were planning on bringing this up in our discussion group in the near future. “Browns” are classified as minorities, and it seems that even in its place in history, we have been minorities.
From another point of view, it is also a wonder why so many groups were clumped together into one group. Even in the white versus black debate, there are so many different groups involved in a “white” group and a “black” group. A “white” person could be from Europe, Australia, Asia, and even Africa. Also, it may be that in the white versus black debate, the “brown people” are already put into the black group. Maybe in generalizing the debate, the Asians, Latinos, Hispanics, and other brown people are automatically considered to be a part of the “black” group, just as the people on the “white” team is considered the “same”. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, as someone considered “brown,” it would be nice to be talked about in the race debate sometimes, but maybe we're already a part of the discussion – just generalized and considered one of the “blacks” as someone that is not “white”.
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I am not surprise that race relation issues always hangs on the aspect of blacks vs. whites.Ever since the whites took blacks from their places of origins and brought them her as slaves, it has always been a battle between the two races. In all actuality, the country was constructed around this battle. At that time, the whites controlled the playing field and dominated everything while the blacks were held to harsh constraints. White people realized that the could not survive without the work ethics of these people so they made laws and enslaved blacks so that this country could be what it is today.
Ever though of how different America would be if it was not infested and built around slavery? I have and I've come to the summation that America will be totally useless if slavery had not existed. Colonists will have fought each other and got tired of it and migrated to other places in the world. It was blacks who held the foundation to this country's upbringing. Colonists, whites needed someone to hate on so they could take their minds of each other and build this country. When blacks started to realized that they were being used and that whites could not handle living conditions without them, they began to rebel. These rebellions opened the eyes of the whites and they noticed that if blacks were not set free, they could have taken over so they inched up on them and give them freedom. But then with this new found freedom, they set barriers. Whites knew by setting blacks out to live on their own they would face hardship since they did no have anywhere to go, forcing most to become sharecroppers. Here the white man is still in control. As blacks began to rise to their feet, they were stopped again by whites putting up Jim Crow laws and restricting them to vote. They were deprived of education and the living conditions granted to them were of the poorest condition. Still the blacks never gave up. They kept pushing until whites open more doors for them.
Nowadays we think that the fight is over but it really isn't. Whites as a whole still have better living opportunities and advantages then blacks. Common example will be urban cities vs. rural/suburban areas. That should sum it up. Urban cities are filled with broken down school systems, more unemployment rates, violence, and health problems. Whereas when you look at rural/suburban areas, schools look better than some colleges campus, most people have good jobs with great health benefits. Also you notice that in cities, there is a vast amount of fast food chains than in white areas which factors in the fact the whites are better taken care of.
Recently on tv I see commercials of people filling out the 2010 census as a way to improve communities. I always wonder if this is done often why is it that neighborhoods are still unequal countrywide? If we want to put an end to this whole black vs. white thing totally equality and balance is to be gained. Blacks feel like the whites owe them the "40 acres and mule" and that the "man" who is perceived as white is holding them down. Whites feel like they did blacks justice by setting them free, and that's the underlining problem. Black vs. White will always be in existence discrimination between the groups persists nobody wants to be in the bottom, even though I think blacks are being cheated.
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I agree with what Laurie is saying in that we cannot get over the differenes between black and white people because of the fact that we here in America have witnessed the problems first hand between the two racial groups so therefore it is a more profound way to look at problems and differences in them. Yes, we had a civil rights movement a long time ago but there are still tensions held between the two groups because biases are passed down from gerneration to generation and there are even still people living from when there were not civil rights for black and brown people. but the question is: why do we even care that there are tensions? I am by no means a racist toward any eithnic group but I feel that in good time, people will get along. Could it be awhile if we don't try to mediate it? Yes. But I truly believe that no one is going to change the mindset of others…they just have to let the groupps sort it out themselves. Is it wrong that this is still going on? Sure. But who are you or I to try to change people? It's jsut not going to happen. The white people of this generation and the black people of this generation know too much about each other and how the past went down. At least the two groups can talk about it and know the frustrations of the other. I think that it is easy to agree with the fact that these two groups have the most dialogue between them. Their history is the most famous in America. I think that this relationship that always get brought up between the two is because they are the closest to seeing some sort of equality. I f we do not intervine with the natural progression then someday we will come to a point where there is no longer discrimination. It will be virtually invisible. Just think about if black men and women and white men and women just kept all of their feelings pent up… that would not be a healthy relationship. I truly feel that this is the sign of these different ethnic groups seeing peace because you never hear of let's say… Native American men and women, and white men and women battling over past issues or feelings because they are not as integrated into caucasion culture and black and brown people are. I think that what Laurie was saying on the video was quite accurate and I believe that this is a good thing that in discussion groups it always comes back to the differences in blacks and whites because the more that their issues are talked about the sooner these issues can be solved.
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I think that being from Northern Virginia has given me a very interesting background to bring to the table. When Sam asked during class if people had heard of Jim Crow, I frowned in confusion. I guess being from the South perhaps our education about the slavery and the Civil Rights movement was a bit more intensive, but it surprised me that there was a possibility that people did not know what Jim Crow Laws were. I think racism and perceived racism is a very touchy subject in the South but what makes my area interesting is that we are very influenced by DC and so it is an odd mix of Southern values and governmental mentalities wanting to ignore the fact that racism happened in America.
I think Laurie makes an excellent point that we are so aware of the black and white issue here in America because we did have the Civil Rights movement that really shed light onto the issue between our two races. That has not happened with any other race and I find it particularly surprising and upsetting considering the Japanese Internment is a horrible blight on our national history and it has been completely ignored. There are so many issues between all races here in the United States and it is important to come to terms with how we treat each other and spread awareness. The anti-Arab, anti- Middle East sentiment after September 11th is absolutely absurd and it has not ceased. My father has a friend who is Indian and he was severely discriminated against after the attack. I could tell how much it hurt my dad to see his good friend have to deal with that kind of discrimination for no reason and I cannot understand how he must have felt. It bothers me that behavior like that is deemed acceptable and if children learn that from their parents, the actions are only perpetuated by future generations.
Children are the future of our country and they should not be taught to hate. Our country is described as a mixing bowl, and I would not want it any other way. I think part of the reason our country is so great is because, theoretically, people are accepted for who they are and they should be allowed to thrive and have the option to succeed without fear of discrimination. Blacks and whites have brought their issues to the table, and while those isssues may not be solved, at least there have been significant steps and changes to the way we treat other. I hope that perhaps one day we will be able to do that with all races and therefore make a more accepting and cohesive America where people are judged for who they are and not the color of their skin.
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I agree. I think the conversations always goes back to white and black when having race related conversations due to what we know and see through out time. When in middle school and in high school during the month of February the black history in America is taken under a deeper scope than what we know by word of mouth. Now that we have a national hispanic week or month do we see a change in institutions exposing society to the hispanic people of America. No, that is not the case, it will take time. What I am getting at is that because people in America other than what they know about the nation's history of politics, and independence is the knowledge on black history of America. Sometimes not even all the accurate information is shared to students. But because people have learned and had gained some type of personal feeling towards black history in America people can react. This understanding is somewhat strong because people have learned about the good and the bad, inequality, and racism.
Conversations dealing with race related topics lead back to the issue of white versus black. A reason for that is that you can not discuss and compromise on a issue without not knowing the situation faced or feeling towards the type of situation. Having a conversation between latinos and latinas in America and their differences with whites my be successful on the hispanic end because they know so much about the American History and more so have possible heard stories of the past that have trickled down through generations. A conversation between whites and hispanics would not work on the white end because the whites are not knowledgeable on the subject enough to understand the struggles, strengths, and weaknesses. As the nation continues to change and its younger generation becomes more culturally challenged then maybe we can find conversations relating to race relations ending up with many other races other than white and black.
What type of people does it take to have a conversation on the topic of race does it take for the conversation to have some type of balance of around maybe 6 cultures or races that no one race with be the dominant of the conversation. Personally I think it would take a group of intellectually, open minded, or caring people the successfully carry through such a successful conversation. I think conversations do happen like this, we just don't see it as much in secondary education institutions as much as we would see it in the UN discussions or debates that is grounded by bright people. Students in secondary education are still trying to figure themselves out therefore you can't rely determine who is from who.
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Laurie’s point is very valid. I believe most people always bring up the white-black conflict because of the long, heated struggle between the two groups. Something as monumentally scarring as slavery is going to manifest itself in arguments for a very long time. I also believe that there are other reasons for this phenomenon. One is that, out of all the racial groups, black people are often viewed in the most negative light. I believe that this creates a lot of tension that boils over when people address the issue of race.
Generally, black people as a whole are stereotyped worse than any other group. They are perceived as the laziest, poorest, and most ignorant of all people. This is why a large group of people still view them as lower than themselves. Because of this, black people oftentimes become bitter and angry towards white people as a whole. If you think about the reason that people don’t bring up the white-chinese/japanese or white-indian relations as much is because the majority of these minorities are or are perceived as being more successful and educated than black people. The reason that white –hispanic relations are talked about less is probably because they are viewed as a more industrious people. It is important to remember that these stereotypes are largely untrue which is probably a major reason for them stirring up these debates.
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I don't get it…actually it's more along the lines of I don't care. Not in the sense that I don't believe that talking about race isn't important, but that I just don't bother to make it factor into my daily life. Yeah I, like a lot of us, may assume things about people based on stereotypes occasionally and well you know what they say when you assume (you make an ass out of "u" and "me". But really I don't see how letting race affect how I live my day to day life is something productive. I guess I just care to live my life on the assumption that people are trustworthy and decent and that once in a while I'll get bit in the ass by someone looking out for their own interests, but more often than not I'll receive a greater reward for having that point of view. But maybe believing that race doesn't belong as a part of my view is part of the problem. I guess more people than not allow race to affect their world view and for me to go along against the grain, while not assuming the social constructs as my own, then I am missing a part of the daily struggle of others to overcome their surroundings that have been blocked off by race. But why, WHY does race have to exist as a social determinant. Are we too stubborn to change our ways or think that our self worth and pride is more important than a social peace? It seems to me that no matter how hard we try to make things equal in this country, we just can't. It's not possible under the current set of circumstances. If everyone believed the way I did then I think we'd have less problems dealing with issues of race or ethnicity. But if everyone did think like I do, then what kind of way to live is that? Do we want to look back on our lives and say, "Oh, that was easy…I never had a day in my life where I struggled." Well if you did want to live your life that way then I pity you, because no one ever learns anything without making a mistake or struggling or making an ass out of themselves. I honestly don't know if this fully relates to the topic at hand, but it's how I feel on the subject of talking about race. It's like talking about anything. If something bothers you, you need to confront it head on…On the topic of race, I suppose most people have issues with white and black people because of the influence they have in American culture. If you lived in China I'm fairly certain the issues would not revolve around white and black. The issues of race differ wherever you go.
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In my opinion this article was very interesting. It was interesting to see how developed our country has become in regards to race. I also thought it was interesting that people can now mark more that one thing for their race because many people have one black parent and one white parent or vice versa and it was unfair to them that they had to choose what race they are. However, I don't see why we still have to focus so much on race. I thought we've came a long way from the days of slavery and the Civil Rights Movement so why can't we just focus on everyone being equal instead of separating people by their race and skin color.
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I think Laurie has a point when she says that the fact that "race" conversations always go back to black and white is because of slavery and the images we have in our head of segregation. Although the African-Americans went through slavery, segregation, oppression, and discrimination I think that what the Native-Americans endured were more difficult times. I mean come on, a very small number of them exist today and the number continues to decrease as these people intermix with other races. These peoples were massacred, enslaved, and forced to relocate. Today they are the poorest group of people living in the United States of America, the land which they inhabited first.
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I Agree with Laurie Mulvey- the discussion always turns to black vs. white not only because of slavery, but because the struggle between blacks and whites is what Americans are most familiar with. The Civil Rights Movement, though in the past, was in the recent past. It is still fresh in the minds of many adults in the United States. Younger generations, though not as intimately affected by the movement, are still hit emotionally when taught about the struggles that African Americans went through in the movement. Many United States citizens are confused as to how to feel and react after learning about the Civil Rights Movement. Those who consider themselves white feel as if they must tiptoe around the issue and not step on anyone's toes, while those who consider themselves black must live knowing what their past generations had to go through at the hands of white people.
Those who are not black or white do not fit into this struggle, or at least not on the surface. The Native Americans, who are victims of the most horrific genocide in history, have been pushed aside silently. We murdered them, stole their land, and have forced them to live pretty crappy existences. What America has done to them is just as bad, if not worse than what we did to the African slaves. But why do we not talk about their genocide and our ignorance? We talk about their teepees and their rain dances, but all the negative things are kept mostly hush hush. We rarely ever bring them up in race relations because they have never truly stirred up things politically. As far as I know, there have been no demonstrations, no groups fighting for Native American rights. I am sure there have been, but they have not been strong enough to make much of a difference. There have been no men like Martin Luther King Junior to stand up for the Native Americans. Why would we ever talk about the Native Americans if they don't stir up problems?
As an Asian American, I know that I am different. But rarely in my life have I ever been truly discriminated negatively against. Never also have I talked to someone who discriminated against me or talked to me about Whites vs. Asians. Maybe it's because I grew up in the suburbs of Philly. I was surrounded by rich white people, middle class white people, and a smattering of other Asians and Black people. Maybe I was just oblivious, but no one ever really looked at me funny or thought differently of me because I had more melanin in my skin. The attention was rarely put on me. Maybe it is because Asians are thought to be passive and less aggressive than Black people. I don't know.
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Hmm, I guess my explanation for the fact that conversations involving race always revolve around blacks and whites is that because these two are the largest groups most people see them as having the biggest problems. Even though it is obvious that Whites and Blacks have a rough history together the truth of the matter is that every group is confronted with their own racial issues (off the top of my head I think about Native Americans and their horrific history regarding genocide). I think that because these two groups are the majority everyone sees their problems play out more often and thus they have become a sort of “default”.
As I think more about it, besides it having to do with size I think it has a lot to do with the fact that no other ethic group feels as much tension as the White and Black group. Although I did say that other groups have their own issues, the fact that these groups aren’t as large as the Black and White group means not everyone sees the problems occurring. Relating this to tension, if you compare other groups to each other, no one else feels as much tension between each other as these two groups. As an example, if say Arab Americans and Latinos really hated each other or had really big problems with each other and you heard about it everyday, no matter how big these groups are, I think these two groups would be the “default” parties in an argument about race. I don’t know if I’m being clear enough, but basically I think this phenomenon has to do with size of the group and I guess coverage (for lack of a better word) of the problems between these groups. Everyday we see something in the news involving discrimination of Blacks or something and thus it has become the first thing we think about wen talking about race. Just recently I saw an article of a black girl standing in front of a train station next to three security guards and still being beaten by another black girl. This created a whole dilemma involving why the security guards (which I believe were White, and this was actually used in the argument) didn’t protect the girl and so things like this influence our ideas when talking about race. I guess in the end, I don’t think it should be like this and everyone should be included when talking about race but it is easy to talk about the majority groups and that is why I think everyone resorts to talking about Blacks and Whites.
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I definitely agree with the fact when a discussion is about race, the topic of "black people" is always brought up. In my opinion, the "black and white" conversation is typically brought up by white people, not black people. And I must say, white people always seem to feel the need to "double check" themselves when relaying their thoughts, especially when around a person who is non-white. When I say "double check," I mean to think twice before relaying their opinion or at least find a way to justify how their actual input by clarifying that it "wasn't rascist."
On the other hand, black people never really seem to have an opinion on the matter. No justification is ever relayed to the listeners as to why they believe there is tension among themselves and white people. While I may not be black, I can see their perspective as to why such negative opinions are generated about white people. For instance, I greatly dislike when white people feel the need to tell a story about a time when "they were the minority" and how "racism" towards them (them being white people) where experienced. In the end, they always say, "if this happened to a black person, it would have been considered racism." The truth is, these white people are often put in that situation for only a small amount of time, whereas non-white people have a greater probability to experience similar situations for their entire lifetime. People always claim how the minority population is skyrocketing in the United States, but when it comes down to the numbers, white people are the majority by a large amount.
When interaction between race comes about, power is always related to the number of people a race may have – strength in numbers. This tends to lead toward bias opinions, and therefore give a greater advantage to the race with a greater amount of people. Plus, it doesn't help that black and white people have the history of slavery between each other (in the United States). Thus, it wouldn't surprise me to hear from an older black person that a situation similar to slavery (with white people being in a slaves position) would be needed to "squash the tension" or "to get even." Whereas the younger generation of black people create this tension because there has been a bad interaction when dealing with someone white – an unfair or act of hatred situation.
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i completely agree with what Laurie is saying about why it seems every time we talk about race, it always come back to black vs white. when i did a race relations project last year where we met in the groups, it seems like all we talked about was black and whites and never really got into Asians, or Arabs or anyone else for that matter. Also, i think she is right on about it coming back to the slavery issue that is at hand when you talk about the two different races, and how that brings it to be just those two because we experienced it in America, where we didn't experience anything like that with any other races. i think it just seems like it has always been black vs white people in all of our history and what we read that we automatically bring it up in a race conversation because of it. It really bothers me when the black versus white issue is brought up, that it never has to do with all the white people who helped to get African Americans out of slavery. I am not saying that it never happens, but most of the time, even when i am talking with my black friends, that it is always awkward stage of slavery talk. I just think that we all should be able to get pass that, because there is more then just the past to talk about. i also think it has to do with there is a lot of white and black people and not to many in between people, so a lot of what people have experienced in their lives has been either with white or black people. As in if someone grows up and the only people they really interact with white and black people then your only going to talk about that because that's all you know. In my opinion in the future it is going to change dramatically because the United States is going to be a huge melting pot. i think this will help because it will get people experiencing different cultures and people so the focus on black and whites will slowly start to diminish. i think for now though no matter what we do, it is somehow always going to still be black versus whites or vice versa when the topic of race comes up. it has improved just like anything else involving race has improved in the lat 50 years, many people are finally realizing that we are all the same and that we are not that different. But until the melting pot actually becomes a big melting pot, we wont see much more change then we have right now.
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This same topic was brought up when I had my section two weeks ago. Whenever I would have discussions about race, whether it was in class or with a group of friends it would always revolve around the black and white issue. I didn’t really pay mind to it because I felt as if it was the common thing to discuss, but while taking this class it made me think of why this occurred. Why is it that these two race groups are the only ones heavily focused on? We discussed it in section and I came to the conclusion as well, that it has to do with history. Yes, Europeans came to America and basically did genocide to the Native American people, but the reason we do not discuss this as much is because there are not many Europeans in the United States and Native Americans usually keep to themselves. Also, people from that generation are mostly dead and the generations after them do not talk about it often. The same instance occurs with Spanish people and another race. Spanish or Latinos are minorities, but there was not a big incident that occurred over many years for us to still be focused on these groups. This also occurred with Asia in which, we had a war with countries in Asia, but Americans didn’t really witness the tragedies and affects of this war at home.
When it comes to African Americans it deals with history. Slavery was something that occurred for many years and even when it was over, there were still divisions between blacks and whites. Many steps were taken afterward to end these divisions and bring equality, such as the civil rights movements. The reason why Americans are so hung up on the black and white race is because the effects and events which occurred were witnessed and included white and black people. The fact that these events occurred at home makes it more personal and meaningful and is why discussions on race are always traced to the black and white issue. If we were in Asia or in Europe these race issues would not be so heavily focused on these two races, but other races/cultures like Jews. I would like to focus on the Latino and white race division, but many people do not have much to discuss when it comes to it and it gets passed along to the black and white issue. I wished it would change so I can understand some things better, but it seems as it will not anytime soon because of the rich history African Americans have in the U.S.
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Why is it just about black and white? When most people talk about racism and say black, they don’t mean African Americans (they are not talking about people who can trace back their ancestry to slavery or however Sam wants to define it) they are talking about everyone who is not white, anyone who is of color. I am an Arab American( no I can’t trace my family back to a terrorist lol, I hope Sam didn’t make a new definition for this too but that’s beside the point), and I have been called black. I have been “mistakenly” referred to as black, because it doesn’t matter anymore, if you are Russian, Colombian, or even African and you look white then you are WHITE, but if you are anything else that appears of color then you are BLACK. It’s not just about black and white, those are too categories that people are willing to see, and they contain many many cultures and a variety of shades. Like Sam in class, his categories are white, black and brown, some people have yellow in their race categories, and some are just color blinded and have hatred for their own kind. We think we came along way, we think that we have almost defeated racism and segregation, but we are far from right. All people see is color; all they see is the difference between me and you because it is not human nature to notice the similarities but to laugh at the few things that make us different. I want you to tell me what are your race categories, and I also want to know what is your definition of each category?, because as Sam said before, we might have more similar DNA with a person of a different race then we do with those that look very similar to us.
Yes it is black and white everywhere, because that’s all we think about, all we see is color and differences. Having similar characteristics to someone else make us feel comfortable around them, we automatically trust them, because we can relate to them, at least we think we can. Diversity is the best and the worst thing that has happened to this world. You can make the best out of it, or it will get the worst out of you. People talk more about race with their own kind than we do in this class. Whether people realize it or not, they are all racist, look me in the eye and tell me that all you see is another human being, that you see a person who is just as good as you are, one that can accomplish the things that you have done. This will never be the case with a different race, we want to go through life thinking that we are better than others, so we choose those that don’t sound like us and don’t look like us. Because we are special and they are not, they are just animals, non humans, right?
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I think that Laurie's point is dead on. We really have not seen as much of the struggle of Asians and Mexicans and Latinos or anyone else for that matter as much as we know about the black struggle. We learned about these black oppressions all through history classes in grade school and it is the one we are most aware of. My thinking is though that everyone needs to get past these previous issues. I do not think that the issues should be forgot about, but I think the stereotype that blacks still blame whites for should be forgotten.
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The issue of Blacks versus Whites is one that is always discussed when dealing with topics on race. Only after reading this article and watching the video, have I began to realize that most of our discussions in Sociology 119 seems to always lead right back to Whites against Blacks, whether it be an example, or the main topic.
Avoiding any discussions on black and white cultures while dealing with ethnicity issues is something that can not be evaded. It’s almost the most prevalent topic that enters into any conversation dealing with the race relations. Probably because the “white vs. black” issue has one of the most dramatic effects on our history, it is what many people refer back to when dealing with race relations.
Slavery had an extremely dramatic effect on our culture. It all started because human beings have a certain nature of not accepting things that are different from themselves. The era of slavery, which even though is not as wide spread as it once was, is still prevalent in this day and age. This era was a horrific time for black people, but now it seems to have take control over different cultures and regions on this planet.
In the United States, slavery has been abolished, but a sense of difference may still remain amongst people of a different skin color. Racism still abides in the minds of some Americans, and this may contribute to why United States citizens of a darker skin tone, may not feel as much as an American, as an American with a light or pale skin color. This may further lead to a sense of “side-choosing” in a race relations debate.
I also think that the reason that conversations dealing with the black and white race, or better yet said, the African American vs. the Caucasian race, are mainly opposing one another, would be because one of our most major parts of history dealt with Black people in a long lasting struggle to gain their freedom. Other races such as the Latinos and Asians are not considered on the same level of one race opposing another. Looking back at our history, I am positive that the White race, feeling a embarrassed and ashamed at their behavior, embrace the United States and its constitution in order to make up for their past deeds. Until common grounds can be established, and old wounds healed, the issue of white versus black, in race relation topics will forever be prevalent.
I highly doubt that the topic of blacks vs. whites will be avoided during race relation discussions any time soon. If it does ever become something of less concern during a discussion about race, it will not happen any time soon. In my honest opinion, it may be one of those issues that will be permanently stained in this world. Metaphorically speaking, slavery left a scar on our ideas and beliefs.
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I feel that in America it is inevitable that the race discussion will almost always boil down to white and black simply due to the fact that in our history we have had major events such as slavery and the civil rights movement, primarily all taking place between blacks and whites. While all races have experiences discrimination in this country, including some white groups, it is hard to deny that the most public and accepted form of discrimination was against blacks through slavery and the segregation laws that were upheld far into the 1900's. While the situation today has become much better in our nation between whites and blacks it is still going to be the most talked about topic in most race relations meetings.
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The conversation between the differences and issues of black and white come up often. As a person I feel that what has happen with discrimination and racism in the United States is something that is too hard to forget and let go. Even though we have come far since, it still doesn't erase the fact of the horrible things that have happened in history. It is hard to sweep these things under the rug and just move on. That is why I feel there is still tension between the two is because we have seen the videos on TV and read about it in books. We know more about the discrimination towards African Americans then we do about Asians or Native Americans because it was an issue that we exploited through the media. We feel more close to this relationship which makes it more sensitive and harder to deal with. Today in the world there are still signs of discrimination towards the two races but I believe there has been much progress. As people we cannot blame African Americans to have some sort of tension between white people, After all that has happened how could you, its very understanding. That’s why we need to progress and make things better. Learn from the past and realize that this is not what god intended it to be like. There should be peace and happiness with everyone. We need to understand that what has happened is embarrassing to us as people. We should never be unkind to another because of the color of their skin.
For example in class on Thursday , we said in discussion that it wasn’t our choice to choose where we came from or what color skin we have. We didn’t make that choice it was luck. Not one single individual in this world chose what family to be a part of or how much money to have and so on. As a white person you need to look at another and say that could have been me and see if you would like to be treated the way African Americans were in the past. We need to understand this and use it to make good in the world. People are people, bottom line, we all are similar. If all that is distinguished between us is the color of our skin then we are all equal. There is no superior race we cannot try to restrict others simply because they are different, it isn’t fair. As people we should over come discrimination, we are all better than that. We know what is right and wrong. Love everyone for who they are on the inside not the color of their skin.
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How is it this happens? Honestly I think people just automatically get in a discussion and then over generalize the population into blacks and whites. We do not think about what we are saying. Everyone is a person and should be treated with that respect. The over generalization happens no matter though and everyone is thrown in a category. It is kind of like how some people assume all Hispanics are Mexican, they are wrong obviously but the make they make the assumption anyways. People find it easy to just stick everyone in a category because once you try to split people up, a lot of the time, you find that people can not be stuck together in one group. Every person on this planet is different. Even the ones that look most alike, like twins, usually are completely different. No one should or can be classified, but people try anyways. It always comes back to black and white though because they share the most history in the U.S. with one another. Native Americans have shared a lot of history too but, there not as big of a group as "blacks". The history of whites keeping the black man down is a something taught over and over again. So, when people talk about race or anything it always ends up back at the thing we think we know the most about. even know though, I feel I do not know much about anything because when Sam made the point about the slaves in class I was shocked. I had never thought about the fact that the conditions they went into were worse than slavery. It is a fight that keeps going and going. Plus, if you tried to talk about other races, people might find that it would be hard to classify that many races. Race really should not exist because it is impossible to classify it. Since it still exists though, people have to figure out how to talk about it. When people start to talk about it that's when the usual classification of blacks and whites come out. People try there hardest to not talk like that I am sure but it just happens sometimes. I feel as if people have a hard time not talking about those two because we have been talking about it for so long. Hispanics and Asians and other "races" exist but none compare to how much we talk about blacks and whites. Maybe it is because they are so different when it comes to skin that people just automatically go there in discussions. I think if people just pulled away from the generalizations and looked at ever being in this planet as a whole, maybe that would help.
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Ever since American history started there has always been a struggle between blacks and whites. Blacks were enslaved by whites for hundreds of years and I believe that is the source of some heated controversy. However, the people alive today weren’t the ones enslaving the blacks. They had nothing to do with the topic of slavery, but are held accountable for it. Other races don’t have a slavery problem as prominent as this one with whites or blacks. There has always been a sort of unspoken competition between blacks and whites. Whether it’s in sports, the job world, or academics, both races feel sort of an intimidation between the two.
I do believe that the reason both races are always brought up together in conversation is because we went through a civil rights movement only fifty years ago. We saw pictures of movements, marches, and hatred between the two races. The impact that was made by these events is unavoidable. You cannot just sit there and say you don’t feel some feeling of remorse. Blacks were treated worse than animals before the civil rights movement. Who are we to say which the dominant race is? God did no grant one race more superior than the other. The torture that they were put through is inexcusable. However, all this hatred that was generated was fifty years ago, not today. Yes, there are still racist people in the world, but it is less prominent now. Blacks or whites should not feel obligated to make it up to the other race. We did not physically harm them, our ancestors did. We had no judgment over their decisions.
I don’t feel it is right how blacks are given more advantages over whites in today’s society. Yes, I know that is an extreme statement to make, but things such as affirmative action and scholarships based on race are not right. Affirmative action is the biggest joke to me. How can it be justified that someone is at an advantage based on the color of their skin. Doesn’t racism focus on skin color, and isn’t that what we’re trying to stop? When it comes to the job world, companies have a certain quota that they have to meet with minority employees. I feel that the most qualified candidate should be considered, not the most qualified black person. It isn’t fair that a white person with more qualifications should lose a job to a black person with fewer qualifications. Also, how is it fair that a white student that worked hard his whole life in school loses a scholarship to a black student that slacked off? I know it is not right to assume that all black students slack off, but a lot of the black kids that I went to school with felt it was too cool to do their homework or to study. However, I know plenty of black students that work just as hard, if not harder than white students. The bottom line is that color shouldn’t matter when it comes to consideration of jobs, scholarships, or school acceptances. The best candidate should be awarded, end of story.
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I think that here in the U.S., especially in the northeast, that race discussion is mostly focused on black and white people because of the amount of black and white people in the area. Often in high school and also here on campus, you see different racial groups interacting with other members of that racial group. From these observations its obvious that racial groups tend to be more comfortable around people with the same skin color or attributes and this causes a separation of the groups. I agree that this separation of black and white people can probably trace back to slavery but is more effected by the civil rights movement. Progress is evident, but the civil rights movement was only a short time ago. It was only a generation or two since black people were not seen as equal. They were seen as inferior and had far less opportunity to succeed in this country. It is easy for today's generation to ignore these facts, but they were real. The injustices against black people was not in the far past, and the effects of these injustices are lasting. Although it is easier for black and whites to interact today, some generations of black people living have grudges against whites and vice-versa, and this is understandable. Any two other racial groups in the country do not have the history and controversy that black and white people share. Although our country slowly progresses to a new future of more equality, right now there is not equality between each racial group. Skin color is still seen, and it still effects people's opinions of others. This is why every time a race conversation is held, it focuses more on black and white people, who have the majority of population and problems in this area. We strive for a colorblind society, but it is a slow process after the events of the mid 1900's.
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I definitely agree with what you are talking about. I believe that people in the United States, Black and White people know that slavery has been an issue, and after hearing Sam's lecture last week about African Americans being behind from the beginning, I think it's safe to say that we always come back to what we know, or saw from our learning. We were taught more about American history than any other history in the world. I wonder if it would be different if we had learned as much information about different countries history as we did American history, if it would have mattered.
Take Germany for example when Hitler was around. Do you think that we would have been educated in Germany that we would have referred to one another as "Christians" and "Jews" because that was so heavily emphasized in those classes in Germany. And along with that, would we have been desensitized to color because we didn't really see it as a huge issue, because we only learned about the Holocaust instead of the Civil War in America?
I also think that the reason we always talk about Black and White people is because that is where the racism kicks in. The generations before us, who didn't have enough time in between the abolition of slavery and when they were growing up became "racist" towards each other. Often times I forget the fact that I am lucky to have my freedoms, and lucky that I grew up in an age where things are much better between race than they used to be. I also believe that there is also some kind of unspoken misunderstanding about these two races. We are both somewhat afraid of each other. I know personally that I don't want to say something to someone that is of a different race than I am because I don't want to offend them.
I also think that even though time is sometimes said to alleviate issues. maybe we haven't made the kind of progress that everyone thinks we have. There is still clearly discrimination and the playing field is not level in our country. It's just sad to see that something like color, which a person cannot control, can determine what you are going to be when you "grow up." When kids are young, they don't see the differences between white, black, brown, or any color of person. They see their peers as who they are. What I don't understand is how parents can raise their children to have such hatred towards another group, or bad views, etc.
For example in the Middle East, when a child is raised in the Taliban, they are raised to hate Americans before they can form their own opinions. But why? A person is a person, is a person. Why can't we all be equal? And I don't mean with socioeconomic status, I just mean equal, not seeing color or religion as a reason why we can't love everyone.
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