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1973116 Responseshttp://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-happens-to-multiracial-people/What+happens+to+multiracial+people%3F2010-03-17+02%3A39%3A35Sam+Richards to What happens to multiracial people?
You pose a great question here. Clearly when Sam is dividing the class he is doing it based on the largest groups: White, Black and Brown. It seems that he is just jumbling people together based on looks meaning most Asians, or multiracial people would associate as one of the Black/Brown. I think the guy he is referring to was in my race relations group so I don't want to put him on blast or anything. But overall, it should be how the individual wishes to identify their color. If someone was half black and half white, it should be up to them to want to identify with either the white or black/brown groups for the purpose of these questions in class. Just because there's no option for multiracial in these questions, like there is on most forms, it does not mean they are forgotten or hidden in the cracks. I believe Sam is only generalizing for the easiest way to divide the class to openly see differing viewpoints.
I agree with your points that Sam is just dividing up the class in the easiest way possible so that the class can understand the points he is making. He mainly divides them up based on appearance and skin color because that is the easiest visual way to identify people so that Sam can teach effectively. However, I disagree with your point that the individual should be able to identify his or her own race. Rather, I think that it should be based on what is the majority ancestry of the individual. The reason for this is so that people cannot identify themselves completely as a race that they only share a small blood ancestry to. For example, someone who is 25% African and 75% Irish would identify themselves as either Irish or Multiracial because that is the majority of their ancestry.
Soc 119 has proven to be a very thought provoking class. It has proven to teach me things that I was previously unaware of. Its strength as a course implies a certain responsibility. The responsibility comes from the influence that Soc 119 can have on a student, at times significant, it would be very unfortunate for Sam to confuse a student if lessons and examples or activities are in conflict.
I believe that this question stands as a possible example of a conflict such as I described above. We learned how it is pointless and even impossible to classify people by race. We learned that the term race was not even in the English language or dictionary until Europeans began exploring and exploiting other ethnicities.
Now my problem is that we do this all the time in soc 119. I understand that the race relations world in which we live is broken into different races. That we are studying these relations, and that classifying people with such broad categories is a typical or common practice, but the responsibility of this class is to be better than that. I mean at the very least allow for the ideas to build upon each other, make a disclaimer reminding the class of the reason that we use these terms in class. That we should focus on breaking down these barriers and mis-notions.
The blog responses to this article simply strengthen my point. It is a point of confusion.
I would simply hate to realize that by the end of this class people identified more closely with their race and less closely with those that differ from them. For the idea of race is false. Then again Sam Richards doesn’t care if we believe this or not, because we are all going to die. He doesn’t care and that’s why he is a teacher. He doesn’t care because he knows he can’t change our mind, but many students say that their minds are changed. Maybe Sam should start caring, or let people in on the secret that he actually does care. I just find some of his statements hypocritical. Teaching is a noble endeavor, a job that is a fundamental piece to our future. I hope that we have teachers who do care what our children get in school, that they do care what is learned and understood in class rooms. Then again we are going to die, so why does Sam teach, commit suicide is for there is no point “bro”.
I want to be taught by a teacher that does care, and I believe that Sam does, just don’t tell me that you don’t. This blog may seem a bit critical, but only because I feel strongly about the content and its potential.
I agree with you in that Sam is doing the best he can in attempting to divide the class into groups. It would be impossible to sit through class if Sam were to try to ask all races what their opinion on a certain matter are, or at least impossible in a class that lasts one hour and fifteen minutes. Other people that responded to this question seem to be offended or accusing this way of classification as just more proof that the world is set up as all colors versus the whites. However, that is how the world is set up, we have been talking about that all year. So, in this race relations class Sam is recognizing that and therefore encouraging talk between the two groups in society. I do not see that as a negative thing or derogatory towards the colored people.
As far as the other comment left in the video, about colored being used as a term that describes everybody, now that is an interesting point to think about. Some people were talking about why people with one white parent and one colored parent were considered colored for example Obama, and I think most people who were half white like that would not consider themselves white, because when someone would see them they would instantly categorize them as non-white. Therefore that non-white person would experience some or all of the same discrimination that full or mostly colored people would experience. They would identify more with the colored community then with the white community. It brings up that line or barrier that I discussed before in why Sam talks about either colored people or white people, you are either I or you are out, you are white or you are not. I think if a half white person were to claim they were white the most automatic response from any race of person would be, “no you are not.” Although Asians and Indians and Black people all have very different experiences and ideas, the overall general perception is always the white people against the people of color.
The fact that white is a color is sort of a very interesting point to think about, it makes everyone seem very much more equal and just the same. Especially when you start thinking about half white people and then if you are three quarters white and then if you just think what if one black or Indian or Mexican person was introduced in my blood line years back. That line I was previously talking about is suddenly blurred and it becomes clearer that we are all just the same. People with parents and an ancestry and culture and the color of our skin making us any different from one another is absurd.
I agree with you to an extent. I understand Sam's point in class. Still, I know the person that is mentioned in the video and he relates to both his white and PR sides. He is proud to be Puerto Rican, don't get me wrong, but he's proud of both sides of him. In the sense that he does look Hispanic (though very light) I guess that would place him more in the brown category, but I do not think that he should have to relate to one or the other. He's PR/American. So why can't he just be American?
I agree with your comment in the fact that everyone in a way is a person of color but I do understand or at least I think I understand the norms that Sam is trying to go by in class. If you are non- white I feel like he is speaking to that population which really can actually be a lot of people that may not realize it. Everyone has their own different ethnic background and somewhere down the line weren't American but were from a different country excluding Native Americans of course. I would be interested to hear the opinions of those who are half white and Puerto Rican for instance and to ask what racial group they themselves identify with. I believe there aren't standards we should go by in terms of that issue and that each person themselves should be able to identify with whatever group they want to identify with.
This is a great point. In our modern day society there are people of mixed colors. I personally couldn’t even tell you what background I have besides being American and I know this is a race relations class but at the same time this is such a subjective division. So if you have any background beside just European, where do you lie? I think this is why this second half of class when we will talk about race identity is so important, because no matter which way you cut it everyone is different. Two people of exactly the same background say 50% Asian and 50% White can relate to a different race depending on how they were raised. This is a big basis off the question which is more important nature or nurture?
I agree that this is a very interesting point. I would be curious to hear from a multiracial person how they feel about racial issues. I wonder if they feel that they identify more closely with one race and why, or if they feel that they almost don't "'fit in" exactly with either race. No matter how we want to generalize, each and every one of us has a different racial background and in that sense it is really hard to categorize people into lump groups because we really all are different. Not everything is just as simple as black or white when it comes to race.
I can’t really even decide for myself what happens to multi-racial people. I would have to say by default if you feel as though you are treated differently than ordinary white people you would have to consider yourself a person of color. I feel as though the when Sam posted the question was aimed at the discrimination and basically not the inequality between the two groups. So if you believe that people look at you differently than an ordinary white person I would have to say you should respond as a person of color because that’s what we are trying to figure out in race relations. We are not just looking at the normal everyday things we are trying to get to the roots because myself being a white person I don’t know what it is but something makes me look at people of color differently I don’t know what it is and I have plenty of friends of color and even my best friend is a person of color but something makes me look at people of color differently. I hope we can all get to the roots so future students don’t even have to talk about.
Just a personal opinion is that a lot of people of mixed race seem to mostly identify themselves with the minority group. If people are half black half white, they seem to be more likely to identify with begin black, now obviously there are exceptions to this. Mixed race people are stuck in a hard place because they try to identify with one group or the other and are sometimes shut down by both " you arent______" fill in the blank. I have a friend that is half black/white and she has trouble because she identifies with black culture, but when people meet her parents sometimes their response is " you aren't really black?" BUT what makes you "black" and why is she not considered black?
I have to agree with you that most mixed race people I know identify themselves with the minority group. But another thing that I have noticed is that they often describe themselves as both races, but to the extent that they are 100%. For example, I have a friend who is half black, half Mexican. When an issue comes up about Mexico, he will react and affiliate with people as though he is 100% Mexican, and the opposite when a black issue arises. But this question overall is quite a doozy, and I am interested to see how mixed race people in the class would answer this.
I have actually thought about this a lot this semester. We often times divide class into white and people of color. If you are half white, your skin is most likely going to be darker than most whites, so if someone were to take a look at you, you would probably be considered a person of color. So, I think this points to the issue of over generalizing people on the basis of color only. I understand that for the purposes of the class, it is convenient to make questions for white people and then separate questions for people of color. But what about people who are both? Are they automatically considered of color because of what they look like on the outside. If I were biracial, which I am not, I would be really set back by all of this. I would say I was white and of color, which would probably be confusing identity wise. I feel like, then, when Sam asks these questions, he is referring to those who look white and this who do not look white, regardless of what your background is. I think he does it this way because we are often treated and discriminated against based solely on our appearance, so even if someone is half white, or even more than half white, if they appear to be colored, that is how they will be seen and treated accordingly by those around them. I have a friend from high school who is biracial, and when the students from the school I went to, which is overwhelmingly white, referred to him as black, he found it humorous. He thought it was funny because he said if they had seen him with some of his other black friends, they would probably be calling him the white boy. This makes me curious to know whether or not he would, and others in a similar position, consider himself to be white or colored, and which set of questions he would feel he is entitled to answer in this class. I think that acknowledging people just by their color has many flaws involved in it, especially for those who are biracial or could pass for being white or of color. In my opinion, it would be hard to be called one thing, either white or black, or being treated like one thing my whole life knowing that I was actually both and that only my skin color was being taken into account. Overall, I think that this might be something that Sam should further address and explain to our class because if I were biracial, I would probably be confused and possibly feel like I was being glazed over.
I do find it weird that the phrase “people of color” is supposed to apply to everyone who is not white. However, just like the kid in the video said, I consider white a color. Therefore, this term is kind of confusing. People who consider white a color might not understand why whites aren’t included in the phrase “people of color.” Also, I think the phrase could be degrading to some of these “people of color.” It is kind of like saying, we don’t know what else to call you and since you’re not privileged enough to be white, here’s a term to describe you/separate you from the whites. It’s also interesting that this kid’s friend doesn’t 100% fit into either category. I guess the best thing to do is just identify with whatever group he’s most comfortable with.
Living across the bridge from New York City, I can relate to this question simply because I have been asking myself this for a long time. I have a large amount of biracial friends, and the majority of them are half white and half asian. In other words, my friends would fall under the categories of both white and black/brown people. In fact, one of my closest friends from high school happens to be biracial. She is half white and half filipino, and in most cases, she classifies herself with the minority group. Of course this doesn't mean that she would completely leave out the fact that she was half white whenever she'd introduce herself to new people, but if she had to choose a race of both of the two, she felt more comfortable with identifying herself as Filipino. No, this was not because she favored one race more than the other, but often times, she would express to me how she never really knew what distinct ethnic background her dad belonged to. This was because when she traced back his parents, grandparents, etc., all of his ancestors resided in America for the longest time. Thus, she was more familiar with her mother's culture. She knew exactly where her mother and all of her mother's ancestors grew up.
On the contrary, I do see where this student is coming from when he says that everyone is actually a person of color, even white people. I do see that you can't necessarily just put a label on people and say that they are "white" or "black and brown". But what about those cases similar to the one that my high school friend was facing? I do understand the point that some white people in America cannot trace back where their ancestors originally came from. In fact, I know a lot of people who are like that. Simply put, their families have lived in America for so long that they just do not know or cannot trace back where their ancestors are from. It could be an endless list of possible races; therefore they simply classify themselves as "white". It is clear to see that Sam is classifying these groups in the easiest way that he possibly could. Usually, a person is considered white based on their skin color and their physical appearance. But here is where I can see the struggle that this student's biracial friend faced. Most Puerto Ricans are very light skinned and seeing that this person's mother or father is white as well, does that make him, or classify him, as white? I guess it all depends on which option this person decides to choose. Again, I feel like biracial people often stick to the fact that they are minorities because their "other half" is, obviously, another race. If a biracial person is familiar with his or her one parent's culture opposed to the other parent's culture, I feel like it would be safe to classify that person as "more as" one race than the other.
The question posted this week on the blog has really made me think about groups and how impossible they are. Sam divides the class into two groups on a regular basis. However, in the beginning of the year an exercise was done to prove it is impossible to group people. When Sam had all those people lined up in the front of the class and were put into groups, it was a complete failure. People were mixed, multi-racial and their races were way more complicated than two groups. I realize that this is just for class activity purposes, but it raises an interesting problem. How many groups do we really need to make to accurately group people? In my opinion, people cannot be put into groups because there are always exceptions. Someone will always be outside the box. And with the population mixing more and more often in our world the confusion will only worsen. An increasing number of people will become the exceptions.
Multi-racial people must really be confused about where they fall. I identify as a white female. I have never thought about it or even considered another option. However, the people that struggle everyday to try and figure which box to check on a form or document are probably truly bothered by this. As the census arrived in my mailbox this week, something else came to mind. What happens to people that fall into more than one category? Do they check two boxes or simply fill in other? I guess they would have to pick one. The heritage, race, and culture they feel most connected to will usually win this internal battle. Although, the person is answering honestly, it does not really tell the whole truth. Therefore, the census results will not be completely accurate.
Also, racial grouping raises another question for me. I was wondering why people from Spain and Portugal are considered Hispanic, while other European countries are all clumped into the white category. Spain and Italy are both in Europe. They both are not English speaking countries. They both have similar skin tones. They both have different cultures. So why is it that one is Hispanic and the other countries are considered white? When is it that a person would identify as something other than white? Sam also said that he white people in the pre-awakening stage identify with their heritage. Does hat mean an Italian, Irish, Greek, etc person is simply white? If they identify with their heritage does that make them uneducated about race relations. Are they ignorant? How can you clump entire people in racial groups that are so different? I think racial grouping is next to impossible and we cannot possible ever correctly put people in categories.
I do agree that this is very confusing. He said once that Moroccan people would be considered “white” but when I talk to my friends from Morocco, they would consider themselves African before they ever considered themselves white since Morocco is in northwestern Africa. I think like you said, your friend should just answer whatever question or relate with whichever group they feel most comfortable with or answer both questions and relate to both groups. Being that your friend is mixed, I think they are in a very unique and cool situation since they can in fact relate with both groups!
When it comes to the idea of color people, white is generally considered a color-less color if that makes sense. Color is everything like ROYGBIV and every various from that. For people, color is anything other than white. Sam says colored people probably based on that thought.
If I was like your friend then I would have just answered the question twice. That is just me though, but the idea of how does a multi-racial person respond to that sort of question. I say just go with the side you most associate as. Besides, who is to say that the different groups didn’t add their own input to the other side’s question?
I’m all for Soc 199 and all its topics of conversation, but I think we have belabored the point regarding how you classify yourself pertaining to skin color. In my opinion it’s quite simply, with you’re white, black, Hispanic, Asian American, Native American, or other. Whether you’re 100% or 50/50 something; you classify yourself as something. I don’t care how you do it, but I’m getting irritated about how much we talk about “what do you consider yourself?” For 95% of the kids in the class it’s a easy answer, for those other 5% they might have a little trouble, but trust me they don’t lose sleep over it. Let’s just talk about something other than what we consider ourselves.
I definitely think Sam's referral to people as "white" or "black and brown" has stirred some confusion and thoughts in everyone's minds (his main priority, right?), regardless if we are multiracial. I'm still not sure who he is referring to when speaking of "black and brown"; in my mind, I associate "brown" with light-medium tone black people and "black" with the very darkest black people. So then I wonder, does he see Asians, Hispanics, etc as falling within the "brown" category? I don't think that's very accurate. There are tan white people that just came from the tanning salon (and one too many of them might I add) whose skin color surpasses that of a Hispanic's. This just goes to show that our perceptions and beliefs regarding the topics we discuss in class more stem from our experiences in life than the color of our skin. My best friend is Italian and gets a tan that matches lighter skinned black people every summer, but she hasn't shared the same experiences of oppression, stereotyping, etc because of it. I think in class we've really reinforced the racial categorizations with skin color, even though we know they are inaccurate. Perhaps we should try to find a more accurate approach.
I think that multiracial people can fall into either category. We often talk about majority and trends according to race in class. So white people being the richest in the country is just on average, even though there is colored people in the classroom who are very well off for example. He wanted to see how people view different races. I think if you are multiracial you could answer for either side, depending on how you were raised. If you were raised in a predominately white neighborhood and school, you would have different viewpoints than a person raised with other colored people. If you were raised in a mixed environment, and you tend to have colored and white friends, then maybe you wouldn't have an opinion on the topic. Many of the viewpoints are stereotypical or biased in ways depending on where each student was raised. In my opinion, our viewpoints are shaped by where we grow up. If you are a colored person growing up in the inner city, you may have an opinion of white people to be rich, privileged or goofy, etc. As a white person hearing this, I am surprised as I grew up far from wealthy and I went to school with many colored and white people. I really think that you can not judge a person by their race because every individual is different. We cannot say white people are rich and black people are poor when there are so many poor white people and rich black people. Also, as you proposed, what would a multiracial person be? They must get the best of both worlds, apparently, because they can be smart, rich, dance, be good at sports, and make good fried chicken.
As we assimilate more and more physical differences seem to dissipate. Is it possible that thousands of years from now a physical difference in race will be harder to detect because people will be less susceptible to only reproducing with their own race. Or is reproducing with your own race something traditional that will stick around forever? I think we are already seeing a trend towards more interracial couples. I think the main thing inhibiting interracial couples is the portion of society that views interracial couple’s negativity. Some people feel that this negative connotation is enough to not peruse a relationship. I think as generation’s progress it will be viewed more and more normal and will be more common. Eventually we will all have mixed races from all parts of the world then it will be really hard to discriminate because you could be discriminating yourself. However people will always find a way to discriminate.
I think that when Sam address the black/brown students in class he is simply doing it because blacks and browns are minority and he wants to know their opinion, feelings, est. When he addresses white students he wants to know the opinion of the majority. So, there for anyone who is of a mixed race is obviously of the minority group and should there for consider themselves "black/brown". Now, I am not saying that your mixed friend cannot answer or consider himself white, clearly he is..so therefore he can do just that, all I am saying is that he is part something else and so therefore he is apart of the minority.
I think that multiracial people can struggle with this question. I have often been asked if I was mixed because of my lighter skin, but of my parents are Black. What I have found when I have been asked this question is that I can see how hard it is for a multiracial person to identify who they are or what they are. I think for a multiracial person it depends on how that person was raised and how they self-identify. I have met many mixed people who have only identified with one particular side or race because those are the people they grew up with and the culture they inherited. I think if we didn't see color we all would be able to fit in and not have to worry about who to identify with. This is an example of how another social construction has affected the lives of certain people.
I have recently started wondering this same thing. I never know when I am 'allowed' to participate in these survey questions because I am half Honduran, half Caucasian. I don't think it really matters what we are racially, but when I, personally, think about what my race is, it changes from day to day. I can be Hispanic when it matters (scholarships and such) but I can also be Caucasian in all other situations, if I so choose. Growing up, I always thought I was different, but I would try to hide it. I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing that I was Hispanic with my classmates because I was afraid of being different. Since high school, though, I have learned to embrace my heritage and differences in a way that I never would have done in my youth. I love having the background I have, being able to chose from day to day what I want to 'be'. As for when the questions come up, I can chose to be on either side because I feel that I am actually on both sides of the issue. I have dealt with feeling different and mild cases of discrimination, but I have also felt the privilege of being a 'white' American my whole life. I really don't care what I am considered racially, most of the time.
I think that this kind of thing is the whole point of the course: to realize we are not all one color or have one association. Just like today with the survey, many people associate themselves with different things whether it’s “American” or “Irish American” or “African American”—we are all different and we can never fully categorize ourselves. Just like when Sam talked about those little boxes on college applications: checking off if we are white, black, Hispanic, Native American—how can one ever fully classify themselves into a category like this. It is normal for your friend to feel confused because, of course, he doesn’t know which to associate himself with. It’s a weird topic, most definitely, because it really depends on how he was brought up, his culture etc. There are other factors, like Sam always says, that play into what one associates themselves with. Undoubtedly, we are meant to be confused. I know people in this class who used to just associate themselves as white (even though they varied in culture). Now, they are more confused because the borders of white and black have turned grey. There really isn’t one set answer or one set association, a lot of outside factors play a large role and I think that’s what Sam is trying to teach us.
This kid says in his question that everybody is a person of color. How is that possible? I mean yes white is a color in a sense, but the world knows color as black and brown people. I don’t know why we even have to distinguish between the ‘colors’ when all people should be treated equally. I know the world is not perfect and it never will be, but if we can try and diminish some of the racism, maybe other people will follow along. As for multiracial people, they are the same as everyone else and that is how they should be treated. I could understand if a multiracial person was more self-conscious then a person of one race, but I still think that everyone should be treated equally.
I think as was said, multiracial people should identify however makes them most comfortable, or however they choose to identify. Even if you feel strongly towards one way, and you still feel disadvantaged or discriminated against due to another part of you, it is okay. I think not drawing lines, and it being sort of blurry and vague, is interesting and important. When Sam says “black or brown,” it does not matter if the situation does not specifically apply to you. For example, I am a white woman, but I am also a Jew. So sometimes when Sam talks about some sort of discrimination towards a group, I still feel that I can identify, even though I am clearly not in the “black or brown” group. Even if you are white person of another decent, but you have ever felt a certain way, it is important if you can identify. Even if the topic is not representative to your specific group or heritage. I think relating and understand is what makes us able to sympathize, understand and relate to each other.
This is kind of a cool question, I never really thought of how a multiracial person fits into this equation. Like this man has mentioned the person who is mixed could respond to the questions identifying themselves with the race he feels more comfortable with, but I feel if that were I I would kind of be abandoning the other race which I am also half of. Personally, I am fully white therefore I do not have this issue, but I think I would be very confused if I were half of something and half of another. I think this maybe should even be clarified in class just so that multiracial people better understand where Sam is coming from.
I understand what this person is saying– if you are half white and half puerto rican you are not “white” nor it is being “black” or “brown”. He is white AND hispanic. Therefore, I feel that if he wanted to respond, he should respond as a white person– because either his mother or father is white. However, because he is not 100% white, he should not feel that he has to answer for either team.
In class I was sitting next to my friend who is Indian. He is not of the black race or white race so I was not sure if he was going to participate. It turned out he responded as a black or brown person, for his skin is very dark.
All in all, I think the point of the exercise was not to exclude any races, but just to see how people feel about being the race they are, as well as see the stereotypes that are out there.
This is an awesome question. Since I am all white, I don’t exactly relate to this situation, but I do know what it is like to not be able to choose between your heritages. I am half Polish and half Italian and sometimes on holidays I have to choose which tradition to follow for the year. I sometimes feel guilty for abandoning half of my heritage. I have a better time with my mother’s side of the family, so I more often than not choose the Polish part of me, but it is sometimes hard to admit that you favor half of your genes over the other. Being multiracial isn’t exactly the same, but it is another example of having to choose between two parts of who you are. On the SATs, would a mixed person choose Caucasian or Black? This is a very interesting idea. I guess they would check the “other” category, but how lame is that to have to fit into the “other” category for the rest of your life. If only race didn’t define us as human beings…
This question makes me think back to Laurie’s post that asked, “Why does it always come down to black and white.” In her blog post, Laurie explained that when race issues are addressed they are usually in terms of black people and white people. Her question asked why, when there are countless numbers of different “races” in the world and even in the United States, does the conversation always boil down to the relationship between black and white people. Laurie explains her position that it is because of the massive Civil Rights movement in the history of the United States and the awareness of discrimination against African Americans that brought their struggles to the forefront of society before those of any other race.
While I think part of the reason Sam asks the text message response questions to “white people” and “black and brown” people because it is the easiest way for most people to identify, I also think a part of it comes from this history of the race conversation being between black people and white people. I don’t know of much animosity that exists between people of mixed races and white people except for maybe when someone of a mixed race is assumed to be a race they don’t identify with by a white person. This also makes me think of Obama, the “black president,” who is of a mixed race. His dad is from Kenya and his mom from Kansas. I think it all comes down to what you identify with.
I’m not sure how I would tell a person of mixed race to answer questions like these. It kind of strengthens the case that race doesn’t actually exist, and that in fact it was just made up by human beings to have a name for other human beings who look different then they do Today in class, Sam asked white people how they identify themselves and was surprised to see that the majority would say their ethnicity. I responded that I would identify with my ethnicity because if someone were to ask me what I am, they can physically see that I am white, so I would give them my ethnic background, which usually explains some physical features. So then, even if I am “white,” does being both Polish and German make me a mixed race? It seems that we all have mixed blood within us but the color that we appear to be most visibly on the outside tends to shape our race identity, solely because it is what other people see. I think that if someone doesn’t identify with any particular race, then they probably wouldn’t have strong feelings about answering questions about race identity.
I think with modernization and increasing technologies in transportation, races are becoming more and more intertwined and mixed, and how one identifies is really often up to them. However, if one is half white and half black like president Obama, then I think ones identity is more contingent upon third person perspective. What I mean is that how one is viewed will generally shape how one thinks, and this will be a large factor in the race that they identify with. Obama is generally considered to be black even though he is half white, and I think that this is primarily because when you see him he looks black. When we see people we do not know their genealogy or ethnic background and this often affects how we treat them. So my point is that when one is between races, then one can choose an identity to some degree, but when ones outward appearance suggests a certain race, then the individual may not have a choice in his or her racial identification.
It’s very interesting that he brings up this topic because this class has made me even more curious about generalizations that are often innocently made by white people. However sometimes it is not even white people that make these racial generalizations it is “people of color” as well.
In class Sam brought up the topic of what white people say about themselves or what black people think about whites, the whole time I was thinking “Well, what about everyone else’s opinion?” It’s frustrating because in some classes all we do is talk about Native Americans, or Asians or Hispanics and Latinos and then we return to their issues until we feel it is time or it becomes relevant. Sometimes the excluding of other races is so blatant but because it seems innocent we let it slide. I have the feeling that other races outside the white team and black team have come to an understanding that their issues will never be discussed as intensely or with such detail unless someone from their community is leading the discussion. But it must be frustrating to see Sam reach a point of realization when he has several different races come in front of the class to demonstrate that there are an infinite amount of races in the world yet exclude those races from involvement in future conversations.
Being black I do not have to deal with the issue or annoyance of constantly being excluded from most race conversations; however I still find myself frustrated for others. But sometimes it seems like we talk about black and white to much. I understand why black and white race relations dominate over others, it’s significant and more recent and in some cases some would say more relevant. But in education is it really fair to exclude others from these conversations? Education is supposed to be about discovering and exploring new ideas, not re-learning old ones. Sometimes I feel that other races aren’t discussed as often because educators or group leaders think that because they might not be as relevant they won’t be as entertaining; but the goal of education is not always to be entertaining.
Laurie herself brought up the point a few weeks ago in a blog topic about how difficult it is to stay off the black and white issue when discussing race; and it is true it consumes our ideas of race. However when asking these questions like Sam did about what white people think of themselves and what black people think about whites doesn’t that make quite a few assumptions. It assumes that all white people think the same way; that white immigrants and white people who can trace their ancestry to the pilgrims think the same way. What about white Russians VS white Brits? Did we even ever define what it means to be white? And for black people it is assuming once again that all black people think the same way. What about black Africans who just moved here for college VS blacks who cannot trace their ancestry to anything? And the difference between blacks who grew up in white suburbs VS blacks who grew up in mostly black urban areas? And if you were to ask what do colored people think about white people doesn’t that then assume that Asians, Indians, Hispanics, Latinos, and Blacks regardless of where they are from on the planet all have the same opinion of white people?
It’s all too complex for these nonchalant generalizations we make.
I guess Sam is creating a base where people can easily categorize themselves like people from a European area like England to Russia are considered white because simply they have white color skin and so on so forth. The topic on multiracial people- i guess its hard to categorize your self to simple bases or race such as black and white. Today, people can be both white or black – people can be more than one group of race. The world is changing and so should the bases of identifying a person's race. On a earlier post on how people would check themselves in a questionnaire, the simple choices where a person is given black, white, etc should change and simply have the person choose or state what they are. For sam, i guess its hard to find so many bases for multi racial people that he himself cant do but we all must do.
In class, it is true that Sam divides the class up in the two categories of white or black/brown people. If you are multi-racial, I think that is a tremendous gift and really cool attribute to have. I am strictly white, so for me, it’s easy to figure out which side I fall on. But same as the guy asking the question, I sit with a friend who is Latina but she looks white. I think that in my friend’s case, and in whoever’s case it may also be, there is a decision that they must make as to which group they identify most with. In my friend’s case, she always responds with the black/brown group because she identifies with her Latina heritage and not the look of her skin. I think this is really cool because she has the luxury to choose. I don’t!
I definitely don’t think I’m unfortunate to have only one skin color, but I do envy people with more than one racial identity. I actually am not even sure of my heritage! Ethnicity is not really something that my family has ever talked about and after this class; I am very envious of the people who strongly identify with their ethnicity. As a middle-class white girl I am lucky enough to be afforded the opportunities and luxuries I have. But, I can’t help but wonder what it would be like if I was Latina, Black, Irish, Italian or even Chinese. To think about this is really fascinating to me!
I always tell people that because I’m a white girl that has rhythm and can dance that I must have black genes somewhere down the line. Also, I have slanted eyes and have been asked if I have Chinese genes in me as well. I hope these aren’t offensive to anyone black or Chinese, I actually always get a chuckle when I tell people that. But honestly, I don’t know where my family comes from. I think if I did know what ethnicity or background I came from, I’m not quite sure if I would automatically identify with that or not though as well. I have lived twenty years of my life thus far, living as a white girl with no ethnic identity. If for whatever reason I find out what my real ethnicity is, I don’t think I’d be able to embrace it as well as my Latina friend who grew up following white and Latina customs.
This question was a very interesting one and I’m glad that it was asked! Not only did it make me think of how other people would deal with this issue, but also made me think about how I would deal with this issue if it was truly pertinent to my daily life as well.
I think that this is a really interesting question. It is also a question that I have thought about throughout the course of the class. I think the best suggestion that I have is to define as the color you most associate with or are most comfortable with. If you are half Puerto Rican and were brought up with a stronger Puerto Rican background than a white background, then why not define as brown. However, the color of your skin also comes into play. If you are half Puerto Rican, but you have very light skin and have been viewed as white all of your life, then you may associate more with being white. The friends you spend your time with also play a large factor. If you are half Puerto Rican, have darker skin, but spend most of your time with white people, then you may consider yourself white. It is a difficult subject. On one hand, you want to define as something to answer Sam’s questions, but every time you answer a question, you may feel like you are not answering from a different part of you. Maybe Sam should ask people to answer his questions from three different “teams.” There should be a black and brown team, a white team, and a mixed team.
My cousins are half white and half Puerto Rican. One of my cousins, I think, would define more closely to Puerto Rican. My other cousin would probably define more closely with white or mixed. If they were asked to choose with “team” to answer for, I think that it would be difficult for them to choose. However, in the state of Pennsylvania, I think that they would choose to answer as Puerto Rican because of the small number of brown people in Pennsylvania compared to the number of white people.
I think that eventually, Sam will not be able to ask people to respond for one team or another. I think that eventually, so many people are going to be mixed that this wont be an issue. However, I think that when the majority of people living in America are mixed, other issues will arise in regard to race relations. People will either be too much of one race or too much of the other. The race relations issues will never stop because people like to find flaws in other people.
Ultimately, I think that people should define with whatever they feel most comfortable. Although what people feel comfortable with may depend on the question and these peoples’ experiences, answer these questions however you please. If you want to be Puerto Rican one day and white the other, go for it.
I too think that Sam is dividing the class the easiest way possible: black, brown, and white. Your friend of course represents both brown and white so I don’t know how he considers himself more, white or brown, but he could choose which group to answer to or he could also just answer to both, why not he represents both. This topic is really interesting to me I guess because I never thought of it, since I’m 100% brown. It make me think about the people that are all 3: brown, black, and white. They would of course be a minority but also a majority is part of them, so I guess if I were them I would always be thinking what I consider myself more, or do I consider to be all 3 equally.
I think it is pretty cut and dry – if you are white, you’re white; if you are black, you’re black; if you are brown, you’re brown; if you are whatever, you’re whatever. I think this dude is basing his reasoning on something concrete. Obviously, his half- white/half Puerto Rican friend identifies with either one group or the other, and I bet he even would even get offended if someone referred to him as a member of the group in which he does not choose to identify. It’s funny, people always want choices and options. This guy has been given the option to identify with multiple races or ethnicities and he is complaining.
I think he's probably just confused especially with the overhead text responses. When Sam gears questions solely to white people or solely to people of color, this kid just probably is unsure of which side to pick. He probably knows a bit of both cultures, if one parent is white and the other puerto rican. So he can answer both questions and yet isn't sure if they really pertain to him or not. I wouldn't take it as complaining. And I don't really think things are so cut and dry. My friend is half mexican and half native american, so while both parts would be considered 'someone of color', it's not like she can just pick one race over the other. She is half and half, both parts at the same time. I think this is an issue that doesn't have a definite, black-and-white answer. The answer is a shade of gray.
I think it goes back to what Sam said about how your race is whatever you want it to be. If you are of mixed race, I think you pretty much get to associate or respond to whatever race you feel like. I have a friend who is half black half white, and he chooses to be “black.” I feel like he could just as easily call himself white if he wanted to, but he doesn’t. People of mixed races not only get to pick a color to identify with, but they also get to call themselves mixed race too. Its an interesting position to be in.
Sam just divides the class the easiest way possible because we would be in that class for days if he divided everything into other racial groups besides white, black, or brown. I think your friend just needs to pick what he wants to be identified as. Like Sam said in one of the first lectures of the class, your race is whatever you want it to be. No one has to tell you what side to pick if you are multiracial. You can associate with any side you want whether it being white or brown. It is totally up to you.
This question is interesting because I always thought that dividing our class into two teams is not enough or in a way not right. I don’t really understand how all people with dark skin are considered on the “black team”. There are some people that are have light skin and I would not consider them black but they are in this class. I guess it is a choice of which team you want to be on if you are not totally white. It is kind of confusing to me. My best friend from home is Korean and Egyptian. I always considered her white and would be jealous of how tan she got in the summer. Is she not white? She wants to use my brother’s girlfriend’s id. They have the same skin color even though I think his girlfriend is Indian, French, and Philippine. Which team is she on? This class has confused me in the sense of I don’t know what to think about race anymore because I did not used to categorize people by the color of their skin. Sam had all those stages in lecture and I don’t know which one I fall into. I never put much thought into a lot of my friends not being white. Are we supposed to see color as a way to categorize people? Maybe it is the term “team” that I don’t like because I want to be on the same team that my friends would be.
It makes me feel racist thinking that my multiracial friends are on the black or brown team. With the idea of having teams: one team is always better than the other. Teams are created for competition. I think Sam should use the term “party” instead of team. It has the same idea of categorizing and everyone likes parties. Also the word “party” is more culturally inviting. Thinking about parties, I love when my non-white friends invite me to their family parties. My family is white and our parties are lame. One of my friends is Indian and I want to marry him so I can go to all their family parties. Usually I’m the only white person there, but Indians know how to party. Their food is awesome and they love to drink and dance. I want to be at the black or brown party.
I don’t think Sam would actually change the terminology he uses because he is in the zone from teaching exactly the same year after year. Using the word
“team” he is promoting competition even if it is not intended. Some of the other blogs want to have more than just two teams. That could work for the mixed people who can flip flop between the two teams. Regardless, I’m going to stop thinking of them as teams and call them parties.
Before this question was asked, I honestly never thought about the point that was made. Now that it has, and after reading the blog post I’m responding to, it’s really got me thinking.
As jerzzeygurl said, I find it interesting that Sam splits up the class into two teams: the white team and the black team. I guess I had always taken that to mean “white” and “people of color”, but not every person of color is the same. Also, in a way, it gives the impression of promoting competition, even if it is not intended, amongst the races. If we are supposed to be in a class about race relations and work towards eliminating the issue, why would we use terminology that gives off the idea of pinning the groups together? I guess since I am a “white person”, it is not hard for me to fall under the two teams, but I cannot imagine what it must be like for those who are multi-racial and have not figured out where they place themselves. I can definitely see that being tough. However, for simplicity’s sake, I do understand why Sam splits this up the way he does. I am just not a total fan of the word “team” to distinguish the groups. I also do not see this changing because of habit; Sam has been teaching this class for so many years, so I can see it being slightly difficult to adjust the terminology you have been using for ages.
The other point made in this blog entry really hit home was that since this class started, I have been thinking more and more about race as each day passes. I know for a fact in the past, I never used it. I grew up colorblind in regards to race, and it taught me to accept people for who they are on the inside and to treat others the way I want to be treated. Growing up, that is something other people would tell my parents – my colorblindness and how accepting and understanding I was of everyone around me. But as this class progressed and different topics are being introduced, I am noticing I am paying more attention to race and the issues surrounding it. Well, it is not like I was not aware before, but I was not overly critical about it. However, now, I am noticing that I second-guess myself more and I am even more afraid of offending somebody. I first noticed this when Sam started talking about the different stages of racial identity, and now I am confused about where I stand. I thought I was more accepting, but I guess according to these stages, I’m not. All I know is that I am not the biggest fan of being more critical and such about race and interactions. I do not want to look at someone who is different than me, and start thinking about that fact, and heavily notice it.
It is funny that you say that. I am in the exact same situation, my mother is full blooded puerto rican while my dad's family comes from the Russia area(percentages are all screwed up from the Soviet Union). When I was sitting there at first I wasn't really sure which group I should correspond with. I think that it all kind of depends on your social background, as in which group do you really identify with. I ended up texting for the white group one, because I am half white and they asked white people, and two because I didn't know that the same question was going to be offered to students of color. What I wonder is, even if I had known, would I still have answered with the white group or would I have waited and answered the second time around?
I am SO glad that someone finally asked this question. As soon as Sam started talking about the stages in class I felt awkward. Being a person of mixed race I never know what “side” to be on. Most of the time I relate to being white because everyone approaches me as such. For those students who replied that those of us who are mixed race should just choose a side to be on, it’s not that easy. You can’t just ignore a part of you. I like that Sam says we can move around as we wish, but I wish there was more exploration for other people into realizing what multiracial people go through. This is my biggest personal struggle and I can’t even put it into words.
i think for the purpose of being time effective Sam just divides the class as black/brown and white just because everyone identifies themselves as either or. It all just depends on what you identify yourself as. I mean I guess multiracial people are probably confused as to where they belong and do not necessarily know how to answer. I think it’s a very complex thing and very interesting as to how people being multiracial would identify themselves and as to whether or not they view themselves as both. I cant really say what I would do if that were me because I really don’t even know how I would decide to that simple question as to what side to be on.
This topic of multiracial people is very interesting and something that I had not thought about but not extensively until hearing this commentary. Where do multiracial individuals fit in? In a world where we try to identify people, objects, anything in seemingly the easiest of terms where do those in the middle get placed? But, back to the question at hand, how does a person of mixed race respond to those white people questions we are asked periodically in class. And the answer that I have come up with, although I am not sure is the best option, varies quite a bit from person to person. While race although important it is not a person’s sole identifier. In some circumstances, although most likely few and far between, one may have to make the call with what race they are considered. And in the case of a culturally mixed individual if given very few options, as we are in class, I think that if the person feels compelled that they must respond they should respond according to whichever race classification they feel most inclined towards, and it would not have to be a permanent fixture. Just because you responded to a question as a white person or a person of color does not automatically label you for life as a person of that demographic.
As we continue to move forward I think that the issue of multiracial individuals will become ever more present. Hopefully, as these issue come to the forefront of our minds though classification of race will cease to be as important or have as many stigmas attached to certain classifications. As we have seen through our studies in this class, adversities affect every racial, social, and economic group. Just labeling yourself white, black, brown, or however you opt to define yourself does not make you exempt from struggles and downfalls we all experience. While it is easy to assume others have an easier life we have learned that race is not an indicator of success or life satisfaction.
Additionally, I think that Sam breaks the class down into three main groups, white, black, and brown out of simplicity. With such a huge class and with so much important information to over, it could take an entire hour and a half class to discuss just exactly how many racial groups, and combination of those racial groups, we have represented in one room…although it would be a very interesting class! I also sincerely hope that just the simplicity of labeling does not deter anyone from answering the questions that are proposed, or at the very least that the labeling does not make multiracial individuals feel inclined to not ponder the questions and formulate their own responses, even if they opt not to text the answers.
This is such an interesting question. It seems fair to say that a great majority of the students in Soc. 119 come from ethnically diverse backgrounds, and if we all possess a conglomeration of color, so to say, then how do we distinguish ourselves as white or colored? I feel that is a matter of personal decision-making. I find that in today’s world, multiracial persons are being forced to identify with only one group of people. It kind of reminds me of something Sam said in class yesterday. For example, I am ¾ white and ¼ Korean, and I consider myself a Korean American, and though I strongly identify with this part of me, I cannot speak Korean and therefore feel that many people would have a problem with me considering myself a Korean American. I feel that it is difficult for multiracial people to be themselves, a mix of race and culture, in a world that wants everything to be black and white.
I think this is a really great question. This is not something that I have really thought about before listening to this post. As a society we often categorize people, and we often categorize people in the most general categories. White, black, Asian, Hispanic, women, men. I don't think we really think about the people who identify with more than one group. In fact, many people do often identify with multiple groups but in general we make them pick one. I could see how your friend has issues identifying with a group since we are often asked to respond to questions as if we are sitting on opposite sides of a fence.
Exactly that is why Sam once said the category system was really absurd and it makes no sense. When we talk about race, we use the white, black, brown and asian to make a general division, in which way we could continue our research into some deeper part of it. If you really wanna say which category the half white half pueto rico guy belongs to, I would suggest to let himself choose. There are so many sub categories that we didn't include in that day's texting activity. Like the title says "people of color", but when Sam concluded, he simply said "black and brown people". So what about the Asians (I am an Asian)? Yea that is just the way it is I guess.
I am glad that someone brought up this subject, because I have often wondered about it myself. It seems like in the majority of class discussions it is a white against black and brown people discussion. I also noticed that there a lot of multiracial students in our class.. I would be interested in hearing how they feel about a lot of the topics brought up in class because they have strong ties to more than one background or opinion. I have always wondered if they felt a sort of animosity towards some of the questions asked.. or even left out when discussions continually omit or dismiss them. I am also wondering if they are more open to the many topics of "race relations" or if they carry an even deeper burden of guilt or oppression. I would appreciate it if in future class discussions Sam were to ask specific multiracial students to answer.. and whose "side" they feel a greater connection with and why. And does that connection change from topic to topic or depend on which part of their family they are closer to or where they grew up or who their friends are or who they just happen to be around at the time. In a race relations class where we are attempting to break down barriers and create an openness and understanding among all people, I think someone of a mixed race may be able to speak more honestly and experienced than someone who isn't mixed. And I also would like to hear more from the "brown" people. It seems like a lot of the discussions compare black and white people, I guess because there is a more dramatic or opposing comparison… but where do the "brown" people stand in race relations? There are a good amount of Asian and Indian and Mexican students in our class.. why don't we start asking them some of these questions? And I wonder how much of a difference it is for them if they are immigrants or born and bred Americans. I understand that to make a point it is easier to pick out the extremes and pin them against each other, but I think the majority of us are somewhere in the middle.. regardless of being black, brown, or white. I just think we exclude the majority of peoples opinions by always searching for the extreme "white" or "black" in every conversation. As a side comment – I am not really sure how I feel about this new message board that Sam is doing. I think it gives people an opportunity to share their thoughts.. but it is also an opportunity for people to make light of a serious conversation and say things that they wouldn't have the guts to say out loud.
I think this is a great question. For me, I never thought about it because I’m just Asian. Granted I’m mixed with Chinese and Cambodian, but it’s easy to categorize where I go into. To answer the question is hard because at first, I was thinking that whatever side that is the majority would be the classification. However, one can be equally half a race. At first I disagreed that the classification should be done according to what the person feels comfortable with, but I can understand why he/she would. It’s not in his/her control where she grows up in or the culture that surrounds him/her, so if a person is half white and black, but grew up in a white neigborhood, but looks more black, maybe he/she would consider him/herself to be white. However, another person of the same background can consider him/herself black. It’s all relative. As I’m saying this though, I’m realizing appearance is significant in this issue because a mixed white/black person would actually look more black and that’s just because of scientific/genetic reasons, so I’m still unsure how a decision can be made, if one has to be made at all..
I think the labels "white" and "black" are very ambiguous. I feel like it is a self identity and the only person who can reach a decision on that identity is the person in question. If you are half black and half white, you probably would not answer a question from Sam that is directed to white people. I think when he asks those questions he is referring to the people who are not from multiracial families. I think race and ethnicity is very important to people and they are the only ones who can address these internal issues. I believe it is easier to come to conclusions and learn about yourself as a person through discussions with people of different races and ethnicities. But ultimately it is up to the individual person to determine their identity. It is not fair for other people to identify someone who comes from a multiracial background because they do not know their internal thoughts and emotions towards their family history.
Black or White? Choose a color, any color. Well there are only two colors to choose from. How does it feel to be Black? How does it feel to be White? These must be the only two colors that exist in the world. These could possibly be the only two questions anyone in the world will be asked. I guess this happens because most people only see the world in Black and White. Wake up people! The world is not completely in Black and White. There are many shades of gray. However, so few of us know this because we are only concerned with those of the Black and White color scheme or pattern.
Every day the discussion about black and white people is set forth. It seems as if that is the only conversation people are willing to have. No one ever discusses topics that are of more concern. Well it is time for that to change completely. Black and White people are not the people who reside in this world. There are many other races, colors, and people. It seems that in today’s society, if one is not completely White, then he or she is considered to be Black. Now the last I checked, everyone had their own race and color. How can we just simply disregard who they are and where they come from just because we want to continuously live in this two color fantasy?
When in our Soc 119 class we are a series of questions that only pertain to people of color and white people. However, we never, myself being included, never stop to think about what those of mixed heritage have to say about the topic of race relations. According to the blog question or statement, someone in our class is both White and Puerto Rican. However, when asked to answer a question that was directed towards white and black people, he could not decide how to answer. He did not know which side to identify with more.
Wow! To just hear this makes me sad. It makes me wonder how those of mixed heritages feel when they confronted with a question about race. Do they disown any part of their heritages or simply embrace them both? Then again how can they know how to feel or what to embrace? We as a society are constantly forcing them to choose sides. We make them feel that since they are not of the so called two dominant races, then they are nothing. This is terrible. We need to speak up more about people with heritages. We need to learn more about them. They should be able to feel a part of this world just as much any other person. They are the shades of gray that we need to start seeing. They are not to be disregarded.
I have also recently thought about this topic because a friend of mine is half black and half white, with his white half being Jewish. I’ve never really asked him what he considered himself, but we’ve discussed how it has helped him to be mixed. He goes to Yale and is convinced the main reason he was accepted was because he put African-American as his race. It also makes me wonder why if people are half black/half white, why most of society considers them black. President Obama is only half black, yet he is known by most people as being black. If everyone thinks whites have it easier, wouldn’t you want people to think of you as white?
I have personally never thought about that issue I am Polish, Ukrainian and pretty damn white. This does raise a pretty interesting question and I would have no idea how to even begin to start answering it. I do understand the people of color vs. white questions because pretty much white people have discriminated against people of every race, religion, color, and creed so whether right or wrong most other people are lumped together because they all have that one common factor. There particular group has been or is still being discriminated against and the common “enemy” or perpetrator of that discrimination is or was predominately the white people. So I think that there I sort of a double edge sword and in this situation I would think that people should answer with whatever they feel more comfortable with.
It’s really interesting you bring this up, because it is in fact one of those things that is so commonly used in society, but you don’t really ever give it a second glance because you’re so used to it. We’ve become accustomed to using the term “colored people” to classify, more than anything, those people who aren’t white. They can be black, brown, yellow, you name it. The fact is plain and simple, white is a color as well; don’t you remember learning the “colors” in 2nd grade? We are indeed, all people of “color”, but I find the phrase “colored people” being used simply as a way to segregate everyone else from the white people. It is immoral, and if you really consider how we’ve come to using this terminology we’ll stumble onto a little something called inequality. In fact, keeping this in consideration, I find the term colored people to be even more offensive. But all things aside, since when was describing someone by their skin color considered derogatory; it is after all, just a color.
I think that this is a difficult question to answer. When people have two or more different backgrounds, they should be able to choose how to identify themselves. When people are multiracial, such as white and Puerto Rican, as stated in the video clip, I think those people should be able to choose how to identity themselves. If they want to be considered white, then that is how they should be identified. On the other hand, if they want to be associated with the Puerto Rican community, or a multiracial community, then that should be allowed as well. I don’t think that other people should be able to tell somebody else how to identify themselves.
You pose a great question here. Clearly when Sam is dividing the class he is doing it based on the largest groups: White, Black and Brown. It seems that he is just jumbling people together based on looks meaning most Asians, or multiracial people would associate as one of the Black/Brown. I think the guy he is referring to was in my race relations group so I don't want to put him on blast or anything. But overall, it should be how the individual wishes to identify their color. If someone was half black and half white, it should be up to them to want to identify with either the white or black/brown groups for the purpose of these questions in class. Just because there's no option for multiracial in these questions, like there is on most forms, it does not mean they are forgotten or hidden in the cracks. I believe Sam is only generalizing for the easiest way to divide the class to openly see differing viewpoints.
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tahmed Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
I agree with your points that Sam is just dividing up the class in the easiest way possible so that the class can understand the points he is making. He mainly divides them up based on appearance and skin color because that is the easiest visual way to identify people so that Sam can teach effectively. However, I disagree with your point that the individual should be able to identify his or her own race. Rather, I think that it should be based on what is the majority ancestry of the individual. The reason for this is so that people cannot identify themselves completely as a race that they only share a small blood ancestry to. For example, someone who is 25% African and 75% Irish would identify themselves as either Irish or Multiracial because that is the majority of their ancestry.
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sjn5014 Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 1:44 am
Soc 119 has proven to be a very thought provoking class. It has proven to teach me things that I was previously unaware of. Its strength as a course implies a certain responsibility. The responsibility comes from the influence that Soc 119 can have on a student, at times significant, it would be very unfortunate for Sam to confuse a student if lessons and examples or activities are in conflict.
I believe that this question stands as a possible example of a conflict such as I described above. We learned how it is pointless and even impossible to classify people by race. We learned that the term race was not even in the English language or dictionary until Europeans began exploring and exploiting other ethnicities.
Now my problem is that we do this all the time in soc 119. I understand that the race relations world in which we live is broken into different races. That we are studying these relations, and that classifying people with such broad categories is a typical or common practice, but the responsibility of this class is to be better than that. I mean at the very least allow for the ideas to build upon each other, make a disclaimer reminding the class of the reason that we use these terms in class. That we should focus on breaking down these barriers and mis-notions.
The blog responses to this article simply strengthen my point. It is a point of confusion.
I would simply hate to realize that by the end of this class people identified more closely with their race and less closely with those that differ from them. For the idea of race is false. Then again Sam Richards doesn’t care if we believe this or not, because we are all going to die. He doesn’t care and that’s why he is a teacher. He doesn’t care because he knows he can’t change our mind, but many students say that their minds are changed. Maybe Sam should start caring, or let people in on the secret that he actually does care. I just find some of his statements hypocritical. Teaching is a noble endeavor, a job that is a fundamental piece to our future. I hope that we have teachers who do care what our children get in school, that they do care what is learned and understood in class rooms. Then again we are going to die, so why does Sam teach, commit suicide is for there is no point “bro”.
I want to be taught by a teacher that does care, and I believe that Sam does, just don’t tell me that you don’t. This blog may seem a bit critical, but only because I feel strongly about the content and its potential.
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dabusiness Reply:
March 19th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
I agree with you in that Sam is doing the best he can in attempting to divide the class into groups. It would be impossible to sit through class if Sam were to try to ask all races what their opinion on a certain matter are, or at least impossible in a class that lasts one hour and fifteen minutes. Other people that responded to this question seem to be offended or accusing this way of classification as just more proof that the world is set up as all colors versus the whites. However, that is how the world is set up, we have been talking about that all year. So, in this race relations class Sam is recognizing that and therefore encouraging talk between the two groups in society. I do not see that as a negative thing or derogatory towards the colored people.
As far as the other comment left in the video, about colored being used as a term that describes everybody, now that is an interesting point to think about. Some people were talking about why people with one white parent and one colored parent were considered colored for example Obama, and I think most people who were half white like that would not consider themselves white, because when someone would see them they would instantly categorize them as non-white. Therefore that non-white person would experience some or all of the same discrimination that full or mostly colored people would experience. They would identify more with the colored community then with the white community. It brings up that line or barrier that I discussed before in why Sam talks about either colored people or white people, you are either I or you are out, you are white or you are not. I think if a half white person were to claim they were white the most automatic response from any race of person would be, “no you are not.” Although Asians and Indians and Black people all have very different experiences and ideas, the overall general perception is always the white people against the people of color.
The fact that white is a color is sort of a very interesting point to think about, it makes everyone seem very much more equal and just the same. Especially when you start thinking about half white people and then if you are three quarters white and then if you just think what if one black or Indian or Mexican person was introduced in my blood line years back. That line I was previously talking about is suddenly blurred and it becomes clearer that we are all just the same. People with parents and an ancestry and culture and the color of our skin making us any different from one another is absurd.
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kjr198 Reply:
March 20th, 2010 at 2:46 am
I agree with you to an extent. I understand Sam's point in class. Still, I know the person that is mentioned in the video and he relates to both his white and PR sides. He is proud to be Puerto Rican, don't get me wrong, but he's proud of both sides of him. In the sense that he does look Hispanic (though very light) I guess that would place him more in the brown category, but I do not think that he should have to relate to one or the other. He's PR/American. So why can't he just be American?
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I agree with your comment in the fact that everyone in a way is a person of color but I do understand or at least I think I understand the norms that Sam is trying to go by in class. If you are non- white I feel like he is speaking to that population which really can actually be a lot of people that may not realize it. Everyone has their own different ethnic background and somewhere down the line weren't American but were from a different country excluding Native Americans of course. I would be interested to hear the opinions of those who are half white and Puerto Rican for instance and to ask what racial group they themselves identify with. I believe there aren't standards we should go by in terms of that issue and that each person themselves should be able to identify with whatever group they want to identify with.
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This is a great point. In our modern day society there are people of mixed colors. I personally couldn’t even tell you what background I have besides being American and I know this is a race relations class but at the same time this is such a subjective division. So if you have any background beside just European, where do you lie? I think this is why this second half of class when we will talk about race identity is so important, because no matter which way you cut it everyone is different. Two people of exactly the same background say 50% Asian and 50% White can relate to a different race depending on how they were raised. This is a big basis off the question which is more important nature or nurture?
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jholzberg8 Reply:
March 19th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
I agree that this is a very interesting point. I would be curious to hear from a multiracial person how they feel about racial issues. I wonder if they feel that they identify more closely with one race and why, or if they feel that they almost don't "'fit in" exactly with either race. No matter how we want to generalize, each and every one of us has a different racial background and in that sense it is really hard to categorize people into lump groups because we really all are different. Not everything is just as simple as black or white when it comes to race.
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I can’t really even decide for myself what happens to multi-racial people. I would have to say by default if you feel as though you are treated differently than ordinary white people you would have to consider yourself a person of color. I feel as though the when Sam posted the question was aimed at the discrimination and basically not the inequality between the two groups. So if you believe that people look at you differently than an ordinary white person I would have to say you should respond as a person of color because that’s what we are trying to figure out in race relations. We are not just looking at the normal everyday things we are trying to get to the roots because myself being a white person I don’t know what it is but something makes me look at people of color differently I don’t know what it is and I have plenty of friends of color and even my best friend is a person of color but something makes me look at people of color differently. I hope we can all get to the roots so future students don’t even have to talk about.
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Just a personal opinion is that a lot of people of mixed race seem to mostly identify themselves with the minority group. If people are half black half white, they seem to be more likely to identify with begin black, now obviously there are exceptions to this. Mixed race people are stuck in a hard place because they try to identify with one group or the other and are sometimes shut down by both " you arent______" fill in the blank. I have a friend that is half black/white and she has trouble because she identifies with black culture, but when people meet her parents sometimes their response is " you aren't really black?" BUT what makes you "black" and why is she not considered black?
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the_situation Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
I have to agree with you that most mixed race people I know identify themselves with the minority group. But another thing that I have noticed is that they often describe themselves as both races, but to the extent that they are 100%. For example, I have a friend who is half black, half Mexican. When an issue comes up about Mexico, he will react and affiliate with people as though he is 100% Mexican, and the opposite when a black issue arises. But this question overall is quite a doozy, and I am interested to see how mixed race people in the class would answer this.
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I have actually thought about this a lot this semester. We often times divide class into white and people of color. If you are half white, your skin is most likely going to be darker than most whites, so if someone were to take a look at you, you would probably be considered a person of color. So, I think this points to the issue of over generalizing people on the basis of color only. I understand that for the purposes of the class, it is convenient to make questions for white people and then separate questions for people of color. But what about people who are both? Are they automatically considered of color because of what they look like on the outside. If I were biracial, which I am not, I would be really set back by all of this. I would say I was white and of color, which would probably be confusing identity wise. I feel like, then, when Sam asks these questions, he is referring to those who look white and this who do not look white, regardless of what your background is. I think he does it this way because we are often treated and discriminated against based solely on our appearance, so even if someone is half white, or even more than half white, if they appear to be colored, that is how they will be seen and treated accordingly by those around them. I have a friend from high school who is biracial, and when the students from the school I went to, which is overwhelmingly white, referred to him as black, he found it humorous. He thought it was funny because he said if they had seen him with some of his other black friends, they would probably be calling him the white boy. This makes me curious to know whether or not he would, and others in a similar position, consider himself to be white or colored, and which set of questions he would feel he is entitled to answer in this class. I think that acknowledging people just by their color has many flaws involved in it, especially for those who are biracial or could pass for being white or of color. In my opinion, it would be hard to be called one thing, either white or black, or being treated like one thing my whole life knowing that I was actually both and that only my skin color was being taken into account. Overall, I think that this might be something that Sam should further address and explain to our class because if I were biracial, I would probably be confused and possibly feel like I was being glazed over.
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I do find it weird that the phrase “people of color” is supposed to apply to everyone who is not white. However, just like the kid in the video said, I consider white a color. Therefore, this term is kind of confusing. People who consider white a color might not understand why whites aren’t included in the phrase “people of color.” Also, I think the phrase could be degrading to some of these “people of color.” It is kind of like saying, we don’t know what else to call you and since you’re not privileged enough to be white, here’s a term to describe you/separate you from the whites. It’s also interesting that this kid’s friend doesn’t 100% fit into either category. I guess the best thing to do is just identify with whatever group he’s most comfortable with.
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Living across the bridge from New York City, I can relate to this question simply because I have been asking myself this for a long time. I have a large amount of biracial friends, and the majority of them are half white and half asian. In other words, my friends would fall under the categories of both white and black/brown people. In fact, one of my closest friends from high school happens to be biracial. She is half white and half filipino, and in most cases, she classifies herself with the minority group. Of course this doesn't mean that she would completely leave out the fact that she was half white whenever she'd introduce herself to new people, but if she had to choose a race of both of the two, she felt more comfortable with identifying herself as Filipino. No, this was not because she favored one race more than the other, but often times, she would express to me how she never really knew what distinct ethnic background her dad belonged to. This was because when she traced back his parents, grandparents, etc., all of his ancestors resided in America for the longest time. Thus, she was more familiar with her mother's culture. She knew exactly where her mother and all of her mother's ancestors grew up.
On the contrary, I do see where this student is coming from when he says that everyone is actually a person of color, even white people. I do see that you can't necessarily just put a label on people and say that they are "white" or "black and brown". But what about those cases similar to the one that my high school friend was facing? I do understand the point that some white people in America cannot trace back where their ancestors originally came from. In fact, I know a lot of people who are like that. Simply put, their families have lived in America for so long that they just do not know or cannot trace back where their ancestors are from. It could be an endless list of possible races; therefore they simply classify themselves as "white". It is clear to see that Sam is classifying these groups in the easiest way that he possibly could. Usually, a person is considered white based on their skin color and their physical appearance. But here is where I can see the struggle that this student's biracial friend faced. Most Puerto Ricans are very light skinned and seeing that this person's mother or father is white as well, does that make him, or classify him, as white? I guess it all depends on which option this person decides to choose. Again, I feel like biracial people often stick to the fact that they are minorities because their "other half" is, obviously, another race. If a biracial person is familiar with his or her one parent's culture opposed to the other parent's culture, I feel like it would be safe to classify that person as "more as" one race than the other.
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The question posted this week on the blog has really made me think about groups and how impossible they are. Sam divides the class into two groups on a regular basis. However, in the beginning of the year an exercise was done to prove it is impossible to group people. When Sam had all those people lined up in the front of the class and were put into groups, it was a complete failure. People were mixed, multi-racial and their races were way more complicated than two groups. I realize that this is just for class activity purposes, but it raises an interesting problem. How many groups do we really need to make to accurately group people? In my opinion, people cannot be put into groups because there are always exceptions. Someone will always be outside the box. And with the population mixing more and more often in our world the confusion will only worsen. An increasing number of people will become the exceptions.
Multi-racial people must really be confused about where they fall. I identify as a white female. I have never thought about it or even considered another option. However, the people that struggle everyday to try and figure which box to check on a form or document are probably truly bothered by this. As the census arrived in my mailbox this week, something else came to mind. What happens to people that fall into more than one category? Do they check two boxes or simply fill in other? I guess they would have to pick one. The heritage, race, and culture they feel most connected to will usually win this internal battle. Although, the person is answering honestly, it does not really tell the whole truth. Therefore, the census results will not be completely accurate.
Also, racial grouping raises another question for me. I was wondering why people from Spain and Portugal are considered Hispanic, while other European countries are all clumped into the white category. Spain and Italy are both in Europe. They both are not English speaking countries. They both have similar skin tones. They both have different cultures. So why is it that one is Hispanic and the other countries are considered white? When is it that a person would identify as something other than white? Sam also said that he white people in the pre-awakening stage identify with their heritage. Does hat mean an Italian, Irish, Greek, etc person is simply white? If they identify with their heritage does that make them uneducated about race relations. Are they ignorant? How can you clump entire people in racial groups that are so different? I think racial grouping is next to impossible and we cannot possible ever correctly put people in categories.
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I do agree that this is very confusing. He said once that Moroccan people would be considered “white” but when I talk to my friends from Morocco, they would consider themselves African before they ever considered themselves white since Morocco is in northwestern Africa. I think like you said, your friend should just answer whatever question or relate with whichever group they feel most comfortable with or answer both questions and relate to both groups. Being that your friend is mixed, I think they are in a very unique and cool situation since they can in fact relate with both groups!
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When it comes to the idea of color people, white is generally considered a color-less color if that makes sense. Color is everything like ROYGBIV and every various from that. For people, color is anything other than white. Sam says colored people probably based on that thought.
If I was like your friend then I would have just answered the question twice. That is just me though, but the idea of how does a multi-racial person respond to that sort of question. I say just go with the side you most associate as. Besides, who is to say that the different groups didn’t add their own input to the other side’s question?
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I’m all for Soc 199 and all its topics of conversation, but I think we have belabored the point regarding how you classify yourself pertaining to skin color. In my opinion it’s quite simply, with you’re white, black, Hispanic, Asian American, Native American, or other. Whether you’re 100% or 50/50 something; you classify yourself as something. I don’t care how you do it, but I’m getting irritated about how much we talk about “what do you consider yourself?” For 95% of the kids in the class it’s a easy answer, for those other 5% they might have a little trouble, but trust me they don’t lose sleep over it. Let’s just talk about something other than what we consider ourselves.
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I definitely think Sam's referral to people as "white" or "black and brown" has stirred some confusion and thoughts in everyone's minds (his main priority, right?), regardless if we are multiracial. I'm still not sure who he is referring to when speaking of "black and brown"; in my mind, I associate "brown" with light-medium tone black people and "black" with the very darkest black people. So then I wonder, does he see Asians, Hispanics, etc as falling within the "brown" category? I don't think that's very accurate. There are tan white people that just came from the tanning salon (and one too many of them might I add) whose skin color surpasses that of a Hispanic's. This just goes to show that our perceptions and beliefs regarding the topics we discuss in class more stem from our experiences in life than the color of our skin. My best friend is Italian and gets a tan that matches lighter skinned black people every summer, but she hasn't shared the same experiences of oppression, stereotyping, etc because of it. I think in class we've really reinforced the racial categorizations with skin color, even though we know they are inaccurate. Perhaps we should try to find a more accurate approach.
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I think that multiracial people can fall into either category. We often talk about majority and trends according to race in class. So white people being the richest in the country is just on average, even though there is colored people in the classroom who are very well off for example. He wanted to see how people view different races. I think if you are multiracial you could answer for either side, depending on how you were raised. If you were raised in a predominately white neighborhood and school, you would have different viewpoints than a person raised with other colored people. If you were raised in a mixed environment, and you tend to have colored and white friends, then maybe you wouldn't have an opinion on the topic. Many of the viewpoints are stereotypical or biased in ways depending on where each student was raised. In my opinion, our viewpoints are shaped by where we grow up. If you are a colored person growing up in the inner city, you may have an opinion of white people to be rich, privileged or goofy, etc. As a white person hearing this, I am surprised as I grew up far from wealthy and I went to school with many colored and white people. I really think that you can not judge a person by their race because every individual is different. We cannot say white people are rich and black people are poor when there are so many poor white people and rich black people. Also, as you proposed, what would a multiracial person be? They must get the best of both worlds, apparently, because they can be smart, rich, dance, be good at sports, and make good fried chicken.
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As we assimilate more and more physical differences seem to dissipate. Is it possible that thousands of years from now a physical difference in race will be harder to detect because people will be less susceptible to only reproducing with their own race. Or is reproducing with your own race something traditional that will stick around forever? I think we are already seeing a trend towards more interracial couples. I think the main thing inhibiting interracial couples is the portion of society that views interracial couple’s negativity. Some people feel that this negative connotation is enough to not peruse a relationship. I think as generation’s progress it will be viewed more and more normal and will be more common. Eventually we will all have mixed races from all parts of the world then it will be really hard to discriminate because you could be discriminating yourself. However people will always find a way to discriminate.
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I think that when Sam address the black/brown students in class he is simply doing it because blacks and browns are minority and he wants to know their opinion, feelings, est. When he addresses white students he wants to know the opinion of the majority. So, there for anyone who is of a mixed race is obviously of the minority group and should there for consider themselves "black/brown". Now, I am not saying that your mixed friend cannot answer or consider himself white, clearly he is..so therefore he can do just that, all I am saying is that he is part something else and so therefore he is apart of the minority.
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I think that multiracial people can struggle with this question. I have often been asked if I was mixed because of my lighter skin, but of my parents are Black. What I have found when I have been asked this question is that I can see how hard it is for a multiracial person to identify who they are or what they are. I think for a multiracial person it depends on how that person was raised and how they self-identify. I have met many mixed people who have only identified with one particular side or race because those are the people they grew up with and the culture they inherited. I think if we didn't see color we all would be able to fit in and not have to worry about who to identify with. This is an example of how another social construction has affected the lives of certain people.
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I have recently started wondering this same thing. I never know when I am 'allowed' to participate in these survey questions because I am half Honduran, half Caucasian. I don't think it really matters what we are racially, but when I, personally, think about what my race is, it changes from day to day. I can be Hispanic when it matters (scholarships and such) but I can also be Caucasian in all other situations, if I so choose. Growing up, I always thought I was different, but I would try to hide it. I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing that I was Hispanic with my classmates because I was afraid of being different. Since high school, though, I have learned to embrace my heritage and differences in a way that I never would have done in my youth. I love having the background I have, being able to chose from day to day what I want to 'be'. As for when the questions come up, I can chose to be on either side because I feel that I am actually on both sides of the issue. I have dealt with feeling different and mild cases of discrimination, but I have also felt the privilege of being a 'white' American my whole life. I really don't care what I am considered racially, most of the time.
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I think that this kind of thing is the whole point of the course: to realize we are not all one color or have one association. Just like today with the survey, many people associate themselves with different things whether it’s “American” or “Irish American” or “African American”—we are all different and we can never fully categorize ourselves. Just like when Sam talked about those little boxes on college applications: checking off if we are white, black, Hispanic, Native American—how can one ever fully classify themselves into a category like this. It is normal for your friend to feel confused because, of course, he doesn’t know which to associate himself with. It’s a weird topic, most definitely, because it really depends on how he was brought up, his culture etc. There are other factors, like Sam always says, that play into what one associates themselves with. Undoubtedly, we are meant to be confused. I know people in this class who used to just associate themselves as white (even though they varied in culture). Now, they are more confused because the borders of white and black have turned grey. There really isn’t one set answer or one set association, a lot of outside factors play a large role and I think that’s what Sam is trying to teach us.
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This kid says in his question that everybody is a person of color. How is that possible? I mean yes white is a color in a sense, but the world knows color as black and brown people. I don’t know why we even have to distinguish between the ‘colors’ when all people should be treated equally. I know the world is not perfect and it never will be, but if we can try and diminish some of the racism, maybe other people will follow along. As for multiracial people, they are the same as everyone else and that is how they should be treated. I could understand if a multiracial person was more self-conscious then a person of one race, but I still think that everyone should be treated equally.
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I think as was said, multiracial people should identify however makes them most comfortable, or however they choose to identify. Even if you feel strongly towards one way, and you still feel disadvantaged or discriminated against due to another part of you, it is okay. I think not drawing lines, and it being sort of blurry and vague, is interesting and important. When Sam says “black or brown,” it does not matter if the situation does not specifically apply to you. For example, I am a white woman, but I am also a Jew. So sometimes when Sam talks about some sort of discrimination towards a group, I still feel that I can identify, even though I am clearly not in the “black or brown” group. Even if you are white person of another decent, but you have ever felt a certain way, it is important if you can identify. Even if the topic is not representative to your specific group or heritage. I think relating and understand is what makes us able to sympathize, understand and relate to each other.
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This is kind of a cool question, I never really thought of how a multiracial person fits into this equation. Like this man has mentioned the person who is mixed could respond to the questions identifying themselves with the race he feels more comfortable with, but I feel if that were I I would kind of be abandoning the other race which I am also half of. Personally, I am fully white therefore I do not have this issue, but I think I would be very confused if I were half of something and half of another. I think this maybe should even be clarified in class just so that multiracial people better understand where Sam is coming from.
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I understand what this person is saying– if you are half white and half puerto rican you are not “white” nor it is being “black” or “brown”. He is white AND hispanic. Therefore, I feel that if he wanted to respond, he should respond as a white person– because either his mother or father is white. However, because he is not 100% white, he should not feel that he has to answer for either team.
In class I was sitting next to my friend who is Indian. He is not of the black race or white race so I was not sure if he was going to participate. It turned out he responded as a black or brown person, for his skin is very dark.
All in all, I think the point of the exercise was not to exclude any races, but just to see how people feel about being the race they are, as well as see the stereotypes that are out there.
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This is an awesome question. Since I am all white, I don’t exactly relate to this situation, but I do know what it is like to not be able to choose between your heritages. I am half Polish and half Italian and sometimes on holidays I have to choose which tradition to follow for the year. I sometimes feel guilty for abandoning half of my heritage. I have a better time with my mother’s side of the family, so I more often than not choose the Polish part of me, but it is sometimes hard to admit that you favor half of your genes over the other. Being multiracial isn’t exactly the same, but it is another example of having to choose between two parts of who you are. On the SATs, would a mixed person choose Caucasian or Black? This is a very interesting idea. I guess they would check the “other” category, but how lame is that to have to fit into the “other” category for the rest of your life. If only race didn’t define us as human beings…
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This question makes me think back to Laurie’s post that asked, “Why does it always come down to black and white.” In her blog post, Laurie explained that when race issues are addressed they are usually in terms of black people and white people. Her question asked why, when there are countless numbers of different “races” in the world and even in the United States, does the conversation always boil down to the relationship between black and white people. Laurie explains her position that it is because of the massive Civil Rights movement in the history of the United States and the awareness of discrimination against African Americans that brought their struggles to the forefront of society before those of any other race.
While I think part of the reason Sam asks the text message response questions to “white people” and “black and brown” people because it is the easiest way for most people to identify, I also think a part of it comes from this history of the race conversation being between black people and white people. I don’t know of much animosity that exists between people of mixed races and white people except for maybe when someone of a mixed race is assumed to be a race they don’t identify with by a white person. This also makes me think of Obama, the “black president,” who is of a mixed race. His dad is from Kenya and his mom from Kansas. I think it all comes down to what you identify with.
I’m not sure how I would tell a person of mixed race to answer questions like these. It kind of strengthens the case that race doesn’t actually exist, and that in fact it was just made up by human beings to have a name for other human beings who look different then they do Today in class, Sam asked white people how they identify themselves and was surprised to see that the majority would say their ethnicity. I responded that I would identify with my ethnicity because if someone were to ask me what I am, they can physically see that I am white, so I would give them my ethnic background, which usually explains some physical features. So then, even if I am “white,” does being both Polish and German make me a mixed race? It seems that we all have mixed blood within us but the color that we appear to be most visibly on the outside tends to shape our race identity, solely because it is what other people see. I think that if someone doesn’t identify with any particular race, then they probably wouldn’t have strong feelings about answering questions about race identity.
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I think with modernization and increasing technologies in transportation, races are becoming more and more intertwined and mixed, and how one identifies is really often up to them. However, if one is half white and half black like president Obama, then I think ones identity is more contingent upon third person perspective. What I mean is that how one is viewed will generally shape how one thinks, and this will be a large factor in the race that they identify with. Obama is generally considered to be black even though he is half white, and I think that this is primarily because when you see him he looks black. When we see people we do not know their genealogy or ethnic background and this often affects how we treat them. So my point is that when one is between races, then one can choose an identity to some degree, but when ones outward appearance suggests a certain race, then the individual may not have a choice in his or her racial identification.
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It’s very interesting that he brings up this topic because this class has made me even more curious about generalizations that are often innocently made by white people. However sometimes it is not even white people that make these racial generalizations it is “people of color” as well.
In class Sam brought up the topic of what white people say about themselves or what black people think about whites, the whole time I was thinking “Well, what about everyone else’s opinion?” It’s frustrating because in some classes all we do is talk about Native Americans, or Asians or Hispanics and Latinos and then we return to their issues until we feel it is time or it becomes relevant. Sometimes the excluding of other races is so blatant but because it seems innocent we let it slide. I have the feeling that other races outside the white team and black team have come to an understanding that their issues will never be discussed as intensely or with such detail unless someone from their community is leading the discussion. But it must be frustrating to see Sam reach a point of realization when he has several different races come in front of the class to demonstrate that there are an infinite amount of races in the world yet exclude those races from involvement in future conversations.
Being black I do not have to deal with the issue or annoyance of constantly being excluded from most race conversations; however I still find myself frustrated for others. But sometimes it seems like we talk about black and white to much. I understand why black and white race relations dominate over others, it’s significant and more recent and in some cases some would say more relevant. But in education is it really fair to exclude others from these conversations? Education is supposed to be about discovering and exploring new ideas, not re-learning old ones. Sometimes I feel that other races aren’t discussed as often because educators or group leaders think that because they might not be as relevant they won’t be as entertaining; but the goal of education is not always to be entertaining.
Laurie herself brought up the point a few weeks ago in a blog topic about how difficult it is to stay off the black and white issue when discussing race; and it is true it consumes our ideas of race. However when asking these questions like Sam did about what white people think of themselves and what black people think about whites doesn’t that make quite a few assumptions. It assumes that all white people think the same way; that white immigrants and white people who can trace their ancestry to the pilgrims think the same way. What about white Russians VS white Brits? Did we even ever define what it means to be white? And for black people it is assuming once again that all black people think the same way. What about black Africans who just moved here for college VS blacks who cannot trace their ancestry to anything? And the difference between blacks who grew up in white suburbs VS blacks who grew up in mostly black urban areas? And if you were to ask what do colored people think about white people doesn’t that then assume that Asians, Indians, Hispanics, Latinos, and Blacks regardless of where they are from on the planet all have the same opinion of white people?
It’s all too complex for these nonchalant generalizations we make.
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I guess Sam is creating a base where people can easily categorize themselves like people from a European area like England to Russia are considered white because simply they have white color skin and so on so forth. The topic on multiracial people- i guess its hard to categorize your self to simple bases or race such as black and white. Today, people can be both white or black – people can be more than one group of race. The world is changing and so should the bases of identifying a person's race. On a earlier post on how people would check themselves in a questionnaire, the simple choices where a person is given black, white, etc should change and simply have the person choose or state what they are. For sam, i guess its hard to find so many bases for multi racial people that he himself cant do but we all must do.
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In class, it is true that Sam divides the class up in the two categories of white or black/brown people. If you are multi-racial, I think that is a tremendous gift and really cool attribute to have. I am strictly white, so for me, it’s easy to figure out which side I fall on. But same as the guy asking the question, I sit with a friend who is Latina but she looks white. I think that in my friend’s case, and in whoever’s case it may also be, there is a decision that they must make as to which group they identify most with. In my friend’s case, she always responds with the black/brown group because she identifies with her Latina heritage and not the look of her skin. I think this is really cool because she has the luxury to choose. I don’t!
I definitely don’t think I’m unfortunate to have only one skin color, but I do envy people with more than one racial identity. I actually am not even sure of my heritage! Ethnicity is not really something that my family has ever talked about and after this class; I am very envious of the people who strongly identify with their ethnicity. As a middle-class white girl I am lucky enough to be afforded the opportunities and luxuries I have. But, I can’t help but wonder what it would be like if I was Latina, Black, Irish, Italian or even Chinese. To think about this is really fascinating to me!
I always tell people that because I’m a white girl that has rhythm and can dance that I must have black genes somewhere down the line. Also, I have slanted eyes and have been asked if I have Chinese genes in me as well. I hope these aren’t offensive to anyone black or Chinese, I actually always get a chuckle when I tell people that. But honestly, I don’t know where my family comes from. I think if I did know what ethnicity or background I came from, I’m not quite sure if I would automatically identify with that or not though as well. I have lived twenty years of my life thus far, living as a white girl with no ethnic identity. If for whatever reason I find out what my real ethnicity is, I don’t think I’d be able to embrace it as well as my Latina friend who grew up following white and Latina customs.
This question was a very interesting one and I’m glad that it was asked! Not only did it make me think of how other people would deal with this issue, but also made me think about how I would deal with this issue if it was truly pertinent to my daily life as well.
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I think that this is a really interesting question. It is also a question that I have thought about throughout the course of the class. I think the best suggestion that I have is to define as the color you most associate with or are most comfortable with. If you are half Puerto Rican and were brought up with a stronger Puerto Rican background than a white background, then why not define as brown. However, the color of your skin also comes into play. If you are half Puerto Rican, but you have very light skin and have been viewed as white all of your life, then you may associate more with being white. The friends you spend your time with also play a large factor. If you are half Puerto Rican, have darker skin, but spend most of your time with white people, then you may consider yourself white. It is a difficult subject. On one hand, you want to define as something to answer Sam’s questions, but every time you answer a question, you may feel like you are not answering from a different part of you. Maybe Sam should ask people to answer his questions from three different “teams.” There should be a black and brown team, a white team, and a mixed team.
My cousins are half white and half Puerto Rican. One of my cousins, I think, would define more closely to Puerto Rican. My other cousin would probably define more closely with white or mixed. If they were asked to choose with “team” to answer for, I think that it would be difficult for them to choose. However, in the state of Pennsylvania, I think that they would choose to answer as Puerto Rican because of the small number of brown people in Pennsylvania compared to the number of white people.
I think that eventually, Sam will not be able to ask people to respond for one team or another. I think that eventually, so many people are going to be mixed that this wont be an issue. However, I think that when the majority of people living in America are mixed, other issues will arise in regard to race relations. People will either be too much of one race or too much of the other. The race relations issues will never stop because people like to find flaws in other people.
Ultimately, I think that people should define with whatever they feel most comfortable. Although what people feel comfortable with may depend on the question and these peoples’ experiences, answer these questions however you please. If you want to be Puerto Rican one day and white the other, go for it.
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I too think that Sam is dividing the class the easiest way possible: black, brown, and white. Your friend of course represents both brown and white so I don’t know how he considers himself more, white or brown, but he could choose which group to answer to or he could also just answer to both, why not he represents both. This topic is really interesting to me I guess because I never thought of it, since I’m 100% brown. It make me think about the people that are all 3: brown, black, and white. They would of course be a minority but also a majority is part of them, so I guess if I were them I would always be thinking what I consider myself more, or do I consider to be all 3 equally.
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I think it is pretty cut and dry – if you are white, you’re white; if you are black, you’re black; if you are brown, you’re brown; if you are whatever, you’re whatever. I think this dude is basing his reasoning on something concrete. Obviously, his half- white/half Puerto Rican friend identifies with either one group or the other, and I bet he even would even get offended if someone referred to him as a member of the group in which he does not choose to identify. It’s funny, people always want choices and options. This guy has been given the option to identify with multiple races or ethnicities and he is complaining.
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flippyfloppies Reply:
March 19th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
I think he's probably just confused especially with the overhead text responses. When Sam gears questions solely to white people or solely to people of color, this kid just probably is unsure of which side to pick. He probably knows a bit of both cultures, if one parent is white and the other puerto rican. So he can answer both questions and yet isn't sure if they really pertain to him or not. I wouldn't take it as complaining. And I don't really think things are so cut and dry. My friend is half mexican and half native american, so while both parts would be considered 'someone of color', it's not like she can just pick one race over the other. She is half and half, both parts at the same time. I think this is an issue that doesn't have a definite, black-and-white answer. The answer is a shade of gray.
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I think it goes back to what Sam said about how your race is whatever you want it to be. If you are of mixed race, I think you pretty much get to associate or respond to whatever race you feel like. I have a friend who is half black half white, and he chooses to be “black.” I feel like he could just as easily call himself white if he wanted to, but he doesn’t. People of mixed races not only get to pick a color to identify with, but they also get to call themselves mixed race too. Its an interesting position to be in.
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Sam just divides the class the easiest way possible because we would be in that class for days if he divided everything into other racial groups besides white, black, or brown. I think your friend just needs to pick what he wants to be identified as. Like Sam said in one of the first lectures of the class, your race is whatever you want it to be. No one has to tell you what side to pick if you are multiracial. You can associate with any side you want whether it being white or brown. It is totally up to you.
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This question is interesting because I always thought that dividing our class into two teams is not enough or in a way not right. I don’t really understand how all people with dark skin are considered on the “black team”. There are some people that are have light skin and I would not consider them black but they are in this class. I guess it is a choice of which team you want to be on if you are not totally white. It is kind of confusing to me. My best friend from home is Korean and Egyptian. I always considered her white and would be jealous of how tan she got in the summer. Is she not white? She wants to use my brother’s girlfriend’s id. They have the same skin color even though I think his girlfriend is Indian, French, and Philippine. Which team is she on? This class has confused me in the sense of I don’t know what to think about race anymore because I did not used to categorize people by the color of their skin. Sam had all those stages in lecture and I don’t know which one I fall into. I never put much thought into a lot of my friends not being white. Are we supposed to see color as a way to categorize people? Maybe it is the term “team” that I don’t like because I want to be on the same team that my friends would be.
It makes me feel racist thinking that my multiracial friends are on the black or brown team. With the idea of having teams: one team is always better than the other. Teams are created for competition. I think Sam should use the term “party” instead of team. It has the same idea of categorizing and everyone likes parties. Also the word “party” is more culturally inviting. Thinking about parties, I love when my non-white friends invite me to their family parties. My family is white and our parties are lame. One of my friends is Indian and I want to marry him so I can go to all their family parties. Usually I’m the only white person there, but Indians know how to party. Their food is awesome and they love to drink and dance. I want to be at the black or brown party.
I don’t think Sam would actually change the terminology he uses because he is in the zone from teaching exactly the same year after year. Using the word
“team” he is promoting competition even if it is not intended. Some of the other blogs want to have more than just two teams. That could work for the mixed people who can flip flop between the two teams. Regardless, I’m going to stop thinking of them as teams and call them parties.
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daniellenitopi Reply:
March 20th, 2010 at 2:27 am
Before this question was asked, I honestly never thought about the point that was made. Now that it has, and after reading the blog post I’m responding to, it’s really got me thinking.
As jerzzeygurl said, I find it interesting that Sam splits up the class into two teams: the white team and the black team. I guess I had always taken that to mean “white” and “people of color”, but not every person of color is the same. Also, in a way, it gives the impression of promoting competition, even if it is not intended, amongst the races. If we are supposed to be in a class about race relations and work towards eliminating the issue, why would we use terminology that gives off the idea of pinning the groups together? I guess since I am a “white person”, it is not hard for me to fall under the two teams, but I cannot imagine what it must be like for those who are multi-racial and have not figured out where they place themselves. I can definitely see that being tough. However, for simplicity’s sake, I do understand why Sam splits this up the way he does. I am just not a total fan of the word “team” to distinguish the groups. I also do not see this changing because of habit; Sam has been teaching this class for so many years, so I can see it being slightly difficult to adjust the terminology you have been using for ages.
The other point made in this blog entry really hit home was that since this class started, I have been thinking more and more about race as each day passes. I know for a fact in the past, I never used it. I grew up colorblind in regards to race, and it taught me to accept people for who they are on the inside and to treat others the way I want to be treated. Growing up, that is something other people would tell my parents – my colorblindness and how accepting and understanding I was of everyone around me. But as this class progressed and different topics are being introduced, I am noticing I am paying more attention to race and the issues surrounding it. Well, it is not like I was not aware before, but I was not overly critical about it. However, now, I am noticing that I second-guess myself more and I am even more afraid of offending somebody. I first noticed this when Sam started talking about the different stages of racial identity, and now I am confused about where I stand. I thought I was more accepting, but I guess according to these stages, I’m not. All I know is that I am not the biggest fan of being more critical and such about race and interactions. I do not want to look at someone who is different than me, and start thinking about that fact, and heavily notice it.
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It is funny that you say that. I am in the exact same situation, my mother is full blooded puerto rican while my dad's family comes from the Russia area(percentages are all screwed up from the Soviet Union). When I was sitting there at first I wasn't really sure which group I should correspond with. I think that it all kind of depends on your social background, as in which group do you really identify with. I ended up texting for the white group one, because I am half white and they asked white people, and two because I didn't know that the same question was going to be offered to students of color. What I wonder is, even if I had known, would I still have answered with the white group or would I have waited and answered the second time around?
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I am SO glad that someone finally asked this question. As soon as Sam started talking about the stages in class I felt awkward. Being a person of mixed race I never know what “side” to be on. Most of the time I relate to being white because everyone approaches me as such. For those students who replied that those of us who are mixed race should just choose a side to be on, it’s not that easy. You can’t just ignore a part of you. I like that Sam says we can move around as we wish, but I wish there was more exploration for other people into realizing what multiracial people go through. This is my biggest personal struggle and I can’t even put it into words.
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i think for the purpose of being time effective Sam just divides the class as black/brown and white just because everyone identifies themselves as either or. It all just depends on what you identify yourself as. I mean I guess multiracial people are probably confused as to where they belong and do not necessarily know how to answer. I think it’s a very complex thing and very interesting as to how people being multiracial would identify themselves and as to whether or not they view themselves as both. I cant really say what I would do if that were me because I really don’t even know how I would decide to that simple question as to what side to be on.
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This topic of multiracial people is very interesting and something that I had not thought about but not extensively until hearing this commentary. Where do multiracial individuals fit in? In a world where we try to identify people, objects, anything in seemingly the easiest of terms where do those in the middle get placed? But, back to the question at hand, how does a person of mixed race respond to those white people questions we are asked periodically in class. And the answer that I have come up with, although I am not sure is the best option, varies quite a bit from person to person. While race although important it is not a person’s sole identifier. In some circumstances, although most likely few and far between, one may have to make the call with what race they are considered. And in the case of a culturally mixed individual if given very few options, as we are in class, I think that if the person feels compelled that they must respond they should respond according to whichever race classification they feel most inclined towards, and it would not have to be a permanent fixture. Just because you responded to a question as a white person or a person of color does not automatically label you for life as a person of that demographic.
As we continue to move forward I think that the issue of multiracial individuals will become ever more present. Hopefully, as these issue come to the forefront of our minds though classification of race will cease to be as important or have as many stigmas attached to certain classifications. As we have seen through our studies in this class, adversities affect every racial, social, and economic group. Just labeling yourself white, black, brown, or however you opt to define yourself does not make you exempt from struggles and downfalls we all experience. While it is easy to assume others have an easier life we have learned that race is not an indicator of success or life satisfaction.
Additionally, I think that Sam breaks the class down into three main groups, white, black, and brown out of simplicity. With such a huge class and with so much important information to over, it could take an entire hour and a half class to discuss just exactly how many racial groups, and combination of those racial groups, we have represented in one room…although it would be a very interesting class! I also sincerely hope that just the simplicity of labeling does not deter anyone from answering the questions that are proposed, or at the very least that the labeling does not make multiracial individuals feel inclined to not ponder the questions and formulate their own responses, even if they opt not to text the answers.
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This is such an interesting question. It seems fair to say that a great majority of the students in Soc. 119 come from ethnically diverse backgrounds, and if we all possess a conglomeration of color, so to say, then how do we distinguish ourselves as white or colored? I feel that is a matter of personal decision-making. I find that in today’s world, multiracial persons are being forced to identify with only one group of people. It kind of reminds me of something Sam said in class yesterday. For example, I am ¾ white and ¼ Korean, and I consider myself a Korean American, and though I strongly identify with this part of me, I cannot speak Korean and therefore feel that many people would have a problem with me considering myself a Korean American. I feel that it is difficult for multiracial people to be themselves, a mix of race and culture, in a world that wants everything to be black and white.
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I think this is a really great question. This is not something that I have really thought about before listening to this post. As a society we often categorize people, and we often categorize people in the most general categories. White, black, Asian, Hispanic, women, men. I don't think we really think about the people who identify with more than one group. In fact, many people do often identify with multiple groups but in general we make them pick one. I could see how your friend has issues identifying with a group since we are often asked to respond to questions as if we are sitting on opposite sides of a fence.
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Exactly that is why Sam once said the category system was really absurd and it makes no sense. When we talk about race, we use the white, black, brown and asian to make a general division, in which way we could continue our research into some deeper part of it. If you really wanna say which category the half white half pueto rico guy belongs to, I would suggest to let himself choose. There are so many sub categories that we didn't include in that day's texting activity. Like the title says "people of color", but when Sam concluded, he simply said "black and brown people". So what about the Asians (I am an Asian)? Yea that is just the way it is I guess.
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I am glad that someone brought up this subject, because I have often wondered about it myself. It seems like in the majority of class discussions it is a white against black and brown people discussion. I also noticed that there a lot of multiracial students in our class.. I would be interested in hearing how they feel about a lot of the topics brought up in class because they have strong ties to more than one background or opinion. I have always wondered if they felt a sort of animosity towards some of the questions asked.. or even left out when discussions continually omit or dismiss them. I am also wondering if they are more open to the many topics of "race relations" or if they carry an even deeper burden of guilt or oppression. I would appreciate it if in future class discussions Sam were to ask specific multiracial students to answer.. and whose "side" they feel a greater connection with and why. And does that connection change from topic to topic or depend on which part of their family they are closer to or where they grew up or who their friends are or who they just happen to be around at the time. In a race relations class where we are attempting to break down barriers and create an openness and understanding among all people, I think someone of a mixed race may be able to speak more honestly and experienced than someone who isn't mixed. And I also would like to hear more from the "brown" people. It seems like a lot of the discussions compare black and white people, I guess because there is a more dramatic or opposing comparison… but where do the "brown" people stand in race relations? There are a good amount of Asian and Indian and Mexican students in our class.. why don't we start asking them some of these questions? And I wonder how much of a difference it is for them if they are immigrants or born and bred Americans. I understand that to make a point it is easier to pick out the extremes and pin them against each other, but I think the majority of us are somewhere in the middle.. regardless of being black, brown, or white. I just think we exclude the majority of peoples opinions by always searching for the extreme "white" or "black" in every conversation. As a side comment – I am not really sure how I feel about this new message board that Sam is doing. I think it gives people an opportunity to share their thoughts.. but it is also an opportunity for people to make light of a serious conversation and say things that they wouldn't have the guts to say out loud.
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I think this is a great question. For me, I never thought about it because I’m just Asian. Granted I’m mixed with Chinese and Cambodian, but it’s easy to categorize where I go into. To answer the question is hard because at first, I was thinking that whatever side that is the majority would be the classification. However, one can be equally half a race. At first I disagreed that the classification should be done according to what the person feels comfortable with, but I can understand why he/she would. It’s not in his/her control where she grows up in or the culture that surrounds him/her, so if a person is half white and black, but grew up in a white neigborhood, but looks more black, maybe he/she would consider him/herself to be white. However, another person of the same background can consider him/herself black. It’s all relative. As I’m saying this though, I’m realizing appearance is significant in this issue because a mixed white/black person would actually look more black and that’s just because of scientific/genetic reasons, so I’m still unsure how a decision can be made, if one has to be made at all..
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I think the labels "white" and "black" are very ambiguous. I feel like it is a self identity and the only person who can reach a decision on that identity is the person in question. If you are half black and half white, you probably would not answer a question from Sam that is directed to white people. I think when he asks those questions he is referring to the people who are not from multiracial families. I think race and ethnicity is very important to people and they are the only ones who can address these internal issues. I believe it is easier to come to conclusions and learn about yourself as a person through discussions with people of different races and ethnicities. But ultimately it is up to the individual person to determine their identity. It is not fair for other people to identify someone who comes from a multiracial background because they do not know their internal thoughts and emotions towards their family history.
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Black or White? Choose a color, any color. Well there are only two colors to choose from. How does it feel to be Black? How does it feel to be White? These must be the only two colors that exist in the world. These could possibly be the only two questions anyone in the world will be asked. I guess this happens because most people only see the world in Black and White. Wake up people! The world is not completely in Black and White. There are many shades of gray. However, so few of us know this because we are only concerned with those of the Black and White color scheme or pattern.
Every day the discussion about black and white people is set forth. It seems as if that is the only conversation people are willing to have. No one ever discusses topics that are of more concern. Well it is time for that to change completely. Black and White people are not the people who reside in this world. There are many other races, colors, and people. It seems that in today’s society, if one is not completely White, then he or she is considered to be Black. Now the last I checked, everyone had their own race and color. How can we just simply disregard who they are and where they come from just because we want to continuously live in this two color fantasy?
When in our Soc 119 class we are a series of questions that only pertain to people of color and white people. However, we never, myself being included, never stop to think about what those of mixed heritage have to say about the topic of race relations. According to the blog question or statement, someone in our class is both White and Puerto Rican. However, when asked to answer a question that was directed towards white and black people, he could not decide how to answer. He did not know which side to identify with more.
Wow! To just hear this makes me sad. It makes me wonder how those of mixed heritages feel when they confronted with a question about race. Do they disown any part of their heritages or simply embrace them both? Then again how can they know how to feel or what to embrace? We as a society are constantly forcing them to choose sides. We make them feel that since they are not of the so called two dominant races, then they are nothing. This is terrible. We need to speak up more about people with heritages. We need to learn more about them. They should be able to feel a part of this world just as much any other person. They are the shades of gray that we need to start seeing. They are not to be disregarded.
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I have also recently thought about this topic because a friend of mine is half black and half white, with his white half being Jewish. I’ve never really asked him what he considered himself, but we’ve discussed how it has helped him to be mixed. He goes to Yale and is convinced the main reason he was accepted was because he put African-American as his race. It also makes me wonder why if people are half black/half white, why most of society considers them black. President Obama is only half black, yet he is known by most people as being black. If everyone thinks whites have it easier, wouldn’t you want people to think of you as white?
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I have personally never thought about that issue I am Polish, Ukrainian and pretty damn white. This does raise a pretty interesting question and I would have no idea how to even begin to start answering it. I do understand the people of color vs. white questions because pretty much white people have discriminated against people of every race, religion, color, and creed so whether right or wrong most other people are lumped together because they all have that one common factor. There particular group has been or is still being discriminated against and the common “enemy” or perpetrator of that discrimination is or was predominately the white people. So I think that there I sort of a double edge sword and in this situation I would think that people should answer with whatever they feel more comfortable with.
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It’s really interesting you bring this up, because it is in fact one of those things that is so commonly used in society, but you don’t really ever give it a second glance because you’re so used to it. We’ve become accustomed to using the term “colored people” to classify, more than anything, those people who aren’t white. They can be black, brown, yellow, you name it. The fact is plain and simple, white is a color as well; don’t you remember learning the “colors” in 2nd grade? We are indeed, all people of “color”, but I find the phrase “colored people” being used simply as a way to segregate everyone else from the white people. It is immoral, and if you really consider how we’ve come to using this terminology we’ll stumble onto a little something called inequality. In fact, keeping this in consideration, I find the term colored people to be even more offensive. But all things aside, since when was describing someone by their skin color considered derogatory; it is after all, just a color.
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I think that this is a difficult question to answer. When people have two or more different backgrounds, they should be able to choose how to identify themselves. When people are multiracial, such as white and Puerto Rican, as stated in the video clip, I think those people should be able to choose how to identity themselves. If they want to be considered white, then that is how they should be identified. On the other hand, if they want to be associated with the Puerto Rican community, or a multiracial community, then that should be allowed as well. I don’t think that other people should be able to tell somebody else how to identify themselves.
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