posted by Sam Richards
There is a good deal to say about creating “terrorists” and making enemies. I guess I laid out what seems to me to be a reasonable argument in the Christian Invaders lecture…but I didn’t have time to give a good many concrete examples of killing civilians. Here is a timely article about some real life, real time examples of people deciding that they must fight back against the invading forces. How many of us consider that “suicide bombers” might be avenging the death of a loved one and not just “crazy people”?
READ THIS ARTICLE: More cause and effect in the War against Terrorists
Here is some graphic video. One of the women who blew herself up in Russia was avenging the death of her husband by Russian forces. It’s funny how we often glorify vigilante killers in our society. Would YOU avenge the death of your mother/spouse/child if you had the opportunity? Look at some of the comments for insight into humanity.
I never thought of the war from the enemy’s perspective. I guess because the war doesn’t affect me in my everyday life, I rarely think about what is happening on a day to day basis. We go to school and live our lives without the threat of being shot while on the way to the grocery store or being assaulted while walking the dog. These small every day activities we take for granted. However this is a bitter reality for the innocent bystanders in the Middle East. Our actions enflame and exacerbate the threat of the very policies justified in the name of fighting Terrorism. These threats include invasions, occupations, bombings, lawless detentions, etc. and as more and more people become involved, with or without consent, in the effects of this war, we are just making matters worse. Plenty of people have been victimized by this continuous battle and feel a right to avenge what has happened to themselves and their families. And this justification I can understand. If people I deemed “the enemy” were in my territory killing innocent people, especially if these people were my family and friends, I would feel the need to retaliate as do the people in the Middle East. The United States is seen as such a civilized and democratic society, so we should act this way towards others in the world.
And we think paying the family $2,000 for the loss of each family member is going to make everything okay? You can’t buy humans and you can’t bring back the loss of a life. It is not surprising that the 80-year-old patriarch of a family who lost two sons, two daughters and a granddaughter in an innocent attack would want to take revenge for his disastrous loss. What interested me in this article was the statement said about the American media. “And had this man carried through on that threat, American media — as always — would undoubtedly have depicted it as some sort of senseless, irrational act of religious fanaticism underscoring yet again how primitive, violent, and full of baseless rage those radical Muslim Terrorists are and how vital it therefore is that we stay and defeat these Evil Enemies.” Even though this statement is crude and defies our society, it is interesting to comment on how our information is censored. We didn’t hear about the random attack which killed innocent citizens, but we would be bombarded with information on “a crazy old man who took revenge.”
This article continues to repeat the fact that our actions consistently create more and more anti-American resentment. And the suicide bombers tend to be what gets produced when foreign armies kill people's loved ones. Because we are waging war in countries where the enemy is composed of a substantial part of the population, inevitable incidents will occur and worsen the Terrorist problem we are allegedly trying to combat. So why do we continue to generate these enemies? Why do we insist on performing random attacks which injury innocent bystanders when we know it will breed more anti-American sentiment?
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sna5022 Reply:
April 20th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
I had the same reactions as you when I read this article. Being in America, I never really considered what was going on in the Middle East. Although I am aware of the situation, it obviously does not affect my everyday life. It is also interesting how the media only displays what we want to see. Like you said, we are bombarded with articles about the crazy, suicide bombers, but we never get the story about why they felt the need to do that in the first place. I cannot imagine being in a situation where an innocent loved one was killed and I was given $2000 to “replace” them. This is a crazy situation and I think our troops really need to do something to fix this.
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Many of us, which includes those in our opponents in the war, view the other as a threat. We each think we are right in the situation and that the other is trying to do us harm. We view the Arabs as terrorists and who is to say the Arab’s do not view us as a terrorist. Why does terrorist have to be associate with Arab or anyone in the Middle East?
Each army is creating soldiers to fight for a cause they perceive. One says we are fighting for the honor of the country and the freedom of it’s the people; the other fights to defend their country and their natural resources. So who is the real terrorists? Maybe we all are.
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Oncodoc Reply:
April 17th, 2010 at 12:04 am
I feel like its really important to look at both sides here. Like you said, we may be viewed as the terrorists as well. As Sam pointed out in lecture, its pretty easy to get lost in the media and whatever else is being thrown at you by your enemy. And the crazy thing is is that its impossible, at times like 9/11 (for us) and the bombing in the Middle East (for people in the middle east) to hold onto the fact that the monsters we see in this videos and real life contact may only be representing a small majority of the people we end up growing to hate in times of war.
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sna5022 Reply:
April 20th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
I think this is a really interesting point. Yes, as Americans we are over there fighting the “war on terror,” but if we are killing so many innocent bystanders, then maybe we can be considered terrorists to some extent as well. Everyone has different views about what is wrong or right, but I think everyone can agree that killing innocent civilians is not the answer to any of this. Unfortunately, this war will probably continue for a very long time, and more and more people will have to die as a result of it. Hopefully, we will be able to find a solution in the near future to prevent this war from continuing.
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erika4179 Reply:
April 22nd, 2010 at 12:48 am
I agree with you on this. Each side has a story. Many times we do not know our enemies reasons for attack or defense. We are all just trying to protect our resources, our families, our jobs, and everything else we have. We see the people trying to hurt these things as the bad guy, but what we do not realize is that they may see us in the same exact way. We may be just as bad as those horrible "terrorists" we hate so much and do not understand. Innocent people are being killed on both sides so all in all both sides are doing an equal amount of harm.
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We have made a good thing into a bad thing with this war. We may have helped lives and done some good things for our country as well as theirs, but in the long run we have created more havoc and chaos by just having our presence in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. The things that our soldiers have done in order to get "prime suspects of terror organizations" have just created more people who are willing to lay down their lives for their country and their cause. We know that everyday we kill people who are completely innocent from the crimes that we have placed on certain people in their country and we are willing to keep doing that until we get where we want to be with our oil and our resources that we are taking from them. When will it stop? Will it ever stop? Will we have to kill everyone in their country in order to get what we want? Its pathetic how much we are willing to do to have one resource that we can live without with more research. The truth is we're making it worse, but who knows whether leaving will make it worse or better.
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Oncodoc Reply:
April 17th, 2010 at 12:07 am
I feel like its a chain reaction. We go over there, force our presence upon people that don't welcome it, and then we end up breeding, over time, these terrorists (whether completely on our own or with the help of their already present radical ideals) which we feel the need to exterminate. I feel like there is this delusion out there that killing them off will put an end to it. But I feel like killing off terrorists and people "we" find a threat is like trying to kill a jellyfish. You stop on it or cut it into two and you've ended up making more enemies than you started out with. The more we try to win this war the more ticked off we're going to make these people and the more uprisings you'll see.
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When I think about the fact that she was avenging her husband’s death, I guess it lightens the fact that she is a suicide bomber because if her husband hadn’t been killed she would not have done this otherwise. I never actually thought about it suicide bombers in this way, I guess I just thought they were crazy patriotic people doing this for their country but I feel that if someone in my family was killed then I would want revenge also but I don’t think I would go as far as to kill myself to kill others. There may have been other ways that she could’ve avenged her husbands death.
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I would avenge the death of my mother or sibling. Im not sure that i would go so far as to become a suicide bomber, but i would do it none the less. I want the peace of mind and i guess revenge iknowing that the person who did this to my family member was treated with Justice. Once again, this is another country in which they have a different norm. However no matter how different things are suicide bombing cannot be one of them. I never thought of the OTHER purposes of suicide bombing, and now, i definatley have switched lenses on the topic.
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I couldn't sit here and explain what I would do in the same situation, I wouldn't kill myself even if it was to avenge a loved one. I don't know if this women had nothing left in life. If she has no other loved ones to fall back on then I could understand performing this act. If I lost my wife or child and I thought that the only way to teach a lesson was to kill my self and other innocent people then I still wouldn't do it. I wouldn't try to send a message to the nation by committing suicide because there are many other ways out.
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mqp5040 Reply:
April 17th, 2010 at 12:03 am
I don't think I would be brave enough to avenge the death of a loved one. I would like to think I would be but realistically, probably not. It kind of reminds me of that movie Law Abiding Citizen where a regular guy goes haywire avenging the death of his wife and children when the American justice system didn't work towards avenging it. I think pain and suffering can make regular people act completely outside of their realm and I think we can't really judge them because we don't know–we truly dont know how we would act in their shoes.
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Revenge is a common feeling, especially after losing a loved one to violence, but to go about your revenge in this manner does not really make any sense to me. This woman is blowing herself up. Not only is she killing herself, something that her husband probably would not want, but she is trying to take the lives of others and cause more people hardship and loss. If everyone acted like her and sought revenge in this manner, than there actually would be no one left. So although I understand the premise of revenge, I do not understand how this can possibly help anything.
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There are many countries in this world that lack the stability that we possess in the United States. I don’t find this article to be incredibly surprising because terrorism is already created by the everyday human being and person. It is the lowest form of military action or revenge that any person can take into their hands. This video is quite revealing of the reality of someone who has taken the revenge aspect f the terrorism upon themselves. In an effort to get revenge for her husband’s death this video shows a woman who is in the process of fighting numerous people and then she blew herself up. Many of the comments I have read express the fact that it may not be terrorism because she is avenging her husband, but I see anyone who is willing to blow themselves up as a terrorist act and plot that has occurred. This is scary to me because this video and action occurred in a relatively developed country Russia. I think that in many of the less powerful or stable countries acts such as these happen on a regular basis. I have never seen anyone die and cannot imagine what it would be like to see this atrocity happen possibly on a day to day basis. Terrorism is a major threat and problem in our world because it can disrupt a number of daily life chores and events. It can hurt the economy, cripple the public transportation numbers, and cause people to live a life in fear rather than freedom and the ability to do anything in life.
There have been recent developments in the United States with a party known as the Tea Party who have taken their views to the extreme. Recent reports have stated that the government is indeed watching this party as a potential terrorist organization because of their intense views, names towards the president and their members consist of some individuals who are prone to violence. There was also another group who was arrested for a plot to overthrow a town government and staged military training sessions in the wooded areas surrounding their homes. These two examples are proof that we are able to create terrorist and that anyone and everyone can be a terrorist. It is a troublesome concept because one can never know what to expect if one is forced to live in fear. This is what the United States government has been facing in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is why the war has been a arduous struggle to win and gain an upper hand. I think that in the case of this women who is avenging her husband’s death it is still an act of terrorism. She has taken matters into her hands and paid the ultimate price for fighting back.
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iunlearn Reply:
April 16th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
terrorism is military action undertaken by poor people.
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There comes a time and a place where people have to make a decision on whether you life and I mean your life is worth the fight and the cause that you are fighting for. Men and Women got to war everyday knowing that their life is on the line every time that they are in enemy area or in some type of battle. This holds to more of the past such as the civil, world wars, and Vietnam. But the fact of the matter if someone loses a loved one and decides to go kill the people that did this to their loved one can you really say that their actions aren’t justified. I know this is a crazy world we live in but when people see injustices going on in the world there are people that will stop and nothing to make sure that those people will pay and its really a matter of what angle you look at it from but I would have to say people will give there life if they think that the cause that they are supporting is bigger than they will ever be.
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Honestly, what is the point of a suicide bombing? How do people get it into their heads that suicide bombing is a good and smart idea? This woman claimed to be avenging her husband’s death but her killing herself does not bring him back. Maybe she wanted to die to be with him. As much as I love my family and would love to get back at whatever or whoever hurt them, I do not think I would want to kill myself. I really can not say for sure though because fortunately I have never been in that type of situation. In my opinion, suicide and bombing are two of the most disgusting things in the world.
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TorreyLFranklin Reply:
April 16th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
In all honesty I think if a group of lets say Chinese invaders came and took over the United States and during their invasion they killed one or some of my family members and friends then I would definitely blow some stuff up. I can't even really imagine how shitty it would be to have my country be destroyed by invasion. I don't think people are really understanding what being invading is really like. I am sure that half the town of state college would be destroyed at least. Half of my friends and family would be dead all because some Chinese people decided to invade us. I would be so mad and so angry that obviously I would be killing, I wouldn't be suicide bombing because then I wouldn't be able to mess up more Chinese then. There is no doubt though that I would be bombing and doing the whole insurgency thing because like there is nothing left to live for, my family, friends, home, and country are all gone or at least gone as we know it. And there is no way I am going to let some Chinese invaders tell me what to do so yes I would fuck a whole lot of stuff up because that's really the only logical thing to do in that situation.
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This is just sad and it makes me angry that we still are continuing with our violent ways all over the world. It is like we are throwing together adversaries, and then doing whatever to them just because they "might" or "could" pose a threat to the US. We will accuse them for all the things that have been going wrong, and that the only way to contain or stop these "evil terrorists" is with violence and senseless murders of innocent civilians. How somebody is supposed to react when one or maybe even a few of their loved ones are killed by the Military? And they were innocent on top of that? I would feel a need for revenge, just like the next person. I do not even mean revenge via suicide bombing, I mean revenge by protesting or some other way to get your voice heard. In no way, shape, or form is suicide bombing the way to go to get back at somebody, but that is the route they chose. It is just hard to decipher an actual terrorist and somebody who is out for justice, because we are not over there seeing all this. We just see what they feed us on the news. In America, we do not deal with terrorism on a daily basis, so a lot of what goes on, we simply would not understand. News media outlets could tell us ANYTHING, and we will believe it because we do not have any other way to look at it. We just keep on creating terrorists so that we can put 700 billion into our military. And for people to question our government, you are suddenly a "conspiracy theorist" or a "terrorist sympathizer" when that is not the case at all. There is A LOT of wrongdoing going on and people just want to know what is going on. While we think by shooting and killing and getting rid of anybody who looks or thinks differently than we do is going to help us and reduce our enemies, it is only INCREASING or enemies by the people who were directly or indirectly involved with that innocent bystander who was killed for no apparent reason. We need to just leave certain places alone and let them handle their business! What would happen if some country didn't like the way President Barack Obama was running the country and decided to come over and regulate? There would be an uproar! I do not know about you, but if my mother and sister were killed senselessly, no amount of money or sheep would subside my anger…..
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I honestly am not one who is a fan of an eye for an eye. However I am a strong believer that there is no place on earth for 1st degree murders, otherwise known as people who proceed with a premeditated murder. If you have the brain to actually think out a murder and fulfill I don’t believe there is a place on earth for these people. Other types of murders are done in a fight where honestly if I got in a fight my Dad always told me if they throw a punch make sure he looks worse than you at the end. So after laying out my values if someone actually killed one of my family members not by a means of a fight or something they did. There is no doubt in my mind if they get locked up it would be for their own good because I would revenge their death not by suicide but by other means.
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This is a very tough subject to weigh in on. There are so many different factors that contribute to what people think and how they act especially in situations as radical as these. For a person to be in the mind state that blowing themselves up is a worthy sacrifice for what they want or for what cause they believe in, they have to be either very mentally unstable or they have to be very passionate about it. In the case of this woman avenging her husband’s death I understand where she is coming from. Though I obviously do not agree with her methods at all because I don’t think that suicide bombing really achieves anything. She is no longer living and for all I know she may not have even killed the guards or soldiers responsible for the death of her husband. The men that she killed may have been completely innocent and might not have had anything to do with what happened. They could have families now left behind without a father and husband. So now what happens, does their family avenge the death of their now deceased father and whom could they even get revenge on. The lady responsible for their deaths killed herself in the process.
With all of that being said I think what you have to do is put yourself in her shoes, or at least in a situation very similar to what happened to her. Say somebody extremely close to you was unjustly murdered by a group of people or soldiers or whatever. What would your reaction be if the justice system in place there weren’t going to do anything to make that person or group of people pay for their actions? Generally in America the justice system handles that for us. Yet obviously in her country, especially when the actions are committed by militants or soldiers the government didn’t do its job in punishing them and helping her, at least not up to her standards. I think if something like this were to happen to me and the justice system wasn’t any help I would take matters into my own hands. I would not be a suicide bomber because like I said earlier I really don’t think that would solve anything. But I would probably figure out a way to get my hands on some type of firearm and come after whoever was responsible for my loss and my pain. Granted this is a very serious situation and there isn’t much that would really get a person other than killing those responsible. I am not a murderer and I would have to be in a very extreme situation to actually kill someone, I think that this situation is one where murderous revenge may be acceptable.
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This is a really sad video. The fact that this woman felt compelled to commit such an act really leaves one wondering why this is such a common occurrence. Why does avenging you husband's death become the course of action. Is it her religion that is encouraging her to do so? I do not know. The whole issue of creating terrorists and what not is really disturbing. You see images of children holding guns as if they were raised to commit terrorism. But then you see videos like this one, where one is avenging the death of a loved one. Maybe her husband was innocent and did not deserve to die, but killing more innocent victims to avenge him is not the way to go.
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This is truly sad to see. The way that people live in other cultures is different but actually not so different than us. Just because people do not run into a crowd with a bomb strapped to them does not mean that we do not have the same things going on over here in America. The loss of a loved one can make you do many crazy things. People commit suicide when their loved one dies, it is the same thing except it saves lives of innocent people instead. A person who robs a bank goes in to the bank not knowing what will happen or if he or she will have to use their gun or excessive force. The point is that this is not so different from what we do as people, however, it is sad to see.
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When asked what we would do after reading this article and watching this video, we all want to believe that we are moral, human individuals. It would be easy to say that we would never seek violent revenge on another human life, or better yet, multiple lives. However, I don’t think that this is that simple of a question. As one of the above bloggers noted, we do not deal with war or terrorism on a daily basis. While as Americans, I a New Yorker with both of my parents working in the city on 9/11, we have fall victim to terrorist attacks, this is not something we deal with every single day. We don’t worry about being attacked every time we ride public transportation or every time we walk to the store. So for us it is easy to say the age-old “two wrongs don’t make a right” or look to the terrorists and call them the crazy ones. We have never had to think of how this is perceived in their minds. And while the terrorists who attacked our country on 9/11 did it out of pure hatred for Western society, that is not the motive of every act of terrorism that occurs worldwide.
When it comes to the 80-year old man who lost his family to terroristic acts in his community, he took matters into his own hands. We have grown up learning how “two wrongs don’t make a right” and “violence doesn’t solve your problems,” but walk in this man’s shoes for a moment. If previously asked, he would probably have said he would never be a violent person, or would never kill in his lifetime. But this average family patriarch, when he lost everything that mattered to him and that he lived for, acted out of shear anger and hatred to stand up for the ones he loved. While hurting someone else doesn’t solve his problems, the same way a payment of $2000 doesn’t bring his loved ones back; you can almost feel for this man and understand why he became a “crazy old man who took revenge.” Wouldn’t any of us become equally crazed if we lost our loved ones? Wouldn’t we feel as if something bigger had taken over us and forced us to seek revenge? We can’t say. This isn’t the reality that we live with every day, but for many in the Middle East it is. When you have nothing left that seems to matter, all that consumes your thoughts are those you’ve lost. So while we in America throw around the cute sayings that we grew up with to justify behavior and actions, we can sit with this one “Don’t judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes.”
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ryanscherer Reply:
April 16th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
I agree, I think that when people experience a traumatic event, like losing a loved one, they sometimes take a course of action that many people consider "crazy." However, many of these people may be thinking rationally in light of what has happened. They may feel so angry at the people who took their loved ones life that they feel they are responsible for making them pay the price. Also, they may consider suicide because they do not want to continue living without their partner at their side. I think many people are quick to label suicide bombers as psychotics and insane (and many of them may be) but there are also those that feel the need to act as revenge.
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It’s shocking to learn the realization of what exactly drives a suicide bomber in the Middle East. The female suicide bomber in this video and the suicide bomber of the Moscow subway system a couple weeks ago were both widows to people unlawfully killed by Russian militant forces. These civilians were just avenging the death of their loved ones, a noble act by some accounts. But in America, they are never perceived as such, and those pieces of information are always left out of the report of the suicide bombing. The most chilling example of this was in the article and the unrefined, brash words of the man who had five family members killed. The man, whose “heart is burning,” said he wanted to become a suicide bomber even if it “breaks me into pieces.” That’s raw, and if that doesn’t perfectly depict the mentality of a suicide bomber, then I don’t know what does.
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I rarely, if ever feel the urge to condemn suicide bombers as crazy people, it is those brainwashing and ordering them to do so for their benefit that enrage me. However, in this case i cannot sympathize with the lady who has the intention of murder, but it is possible to partially understand the pain she must be feeling, and to understand that she believes that this is the only way to avenge her husbands death. It is impossible for an of us to understand what is going through a suicide bombers mind, whilst we can condemn their action as 'crazy' and inhumane, in many situations such as this one they have experienced that we can only imagine.
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It’s interesting how even one objective article (I’d almost go as far as saying unbiased as this story doesn’t come from a CNN or Fox News, however there is no such thing as being unbiased; the individual who wrote the column obviously had some sort of agenda in mind) can shed new light on an issue that’s been hashed and rehashed more times than I’d care to think about. I find that it’s hard for many of us to put ourselves in the situation of the individuals whose countries are being invaded. It’s difficult to be able to think from their perspective as it’s so far out of the realm of what we’ve been conditioned to. We don’t have people from a foreign country who don’t speak our language and don’t understand our culture and customs walking our streets and telling us what we can and cannot do. It is indeed a radically different point of view when one thinks about it. This article does a good job of showing just how much the media alters our collective perception about events; those covering the situation attempt to spin it towards their agenda or the agenda of the country, rather than doing their job: dispersing the unadulterated truth to the masses. What struck a chord with me personally was the story about the 80 year old man who lost two sons, two daughters and a granddaughter in the attack outlined in the article. I could definitely see myself vowing to avenge my family if they were just torn from me by an identifiable entity. I think that more attention should be paid to the psychology behind the suicide bombing and other similar attacks. Maybe if we understood exactly why they were happening, then we wouldn’t misstep and cause someone to feel so strongly against us that they strap a bomb to themselves. Just something to consider for the future.
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This is an extreme case, and I am not sure what I would do in this case. However I believe that it all depends on the person's mental state and how badly they were hurt by the event. Because if I had to put myself in that situation and my young child was killed by an attack from these foreign Christian Crusaders, killing myself to kill many of them would be a menial task. Therefore if most of these suicide bombers are killing themselves to avenge for a loved then I completely understand. If they are doing these for other reason for example "religious" purposes then I simply cannot wrap my head around that idea.
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This is an incredibly interesting article to me. After watching the graphic intense bloody video, we are supposed to look back and say that I personally would not do anything like the 80 year old man or woman did. However, like stated in an above article, I do not live in the Middle East, I do not know what it is like to live anywhere ebesides the United States, and I have no idea how I would react to a situation like this. In my lifetime, I have only really witnessed one act of terror in 9/11. While it is one horrific terrible and bloody act of terrorism, it is not something that impacted me majorly, or something that I deal with on a daily basis. In fact, while there is a lot of hype and worry from some Americans, we live in a very safe place in regards to attacks and safety. If I was confronted with a situation like the one with 80 years old man, where he lost everything he cared about on earth, im not sure I would act different. This does not make me a violent person or terroritst or anything, but I love my family. I argue that just about anyone on earth would become equally distressed and angry and pissed off if confronted with the situation. We would all want to get revenge and make other people suffer. To be honest, we never really know how we will act unless we are confronted with a situation. Another valid point is how suicide bombers are viewed differently in America than in other place. In some places, they are glorified and appear noble, but in America they are always always condemned and seen as terrible horrible maniacs. In no way shape or form am I saying that suicide bombers are just or right or even close to justified, but I can in some ways understand what they do. Maybe in their anguish and pain they are so angry that to them it seems right. To be honest, I have no idea what they feel or what is going through their heads because I have never had family members killed or anything of the sort, and have never even though of doing a horrific act like that. I guess in the end it is a hard situation. Killign others and committing horrible acts does not bring loved ones back. But at the same time it is hard for a person like me to ever understand what is going through someones head who is faced with death and murder and pain every single day, untl they are fed up and at their breaking point and have no other options. Go Phillies.
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I think that it is crazy how these people kill can just kill themselves like that. I would never be able to do it no matter how strongly I believed in something. I am not saying that I would not avenge the wrongful death of a family member, I am just saying that I would not intentionally kill myself to do so. I don'e really see the sense in it at all. What is the point of killing yourself for something? Some may say to dedicate their lives to something they believe in, but I think that this is ridiculous because when you kill yourself you will never see your dreams come true because you will be dead. That woman who blew herself up to avenge the death of her husband by the Russians did it because she felt that justice needed to be served to those who had wronged her and her husband, but what she doesn't realize is that not only will she not be there to see any change come out of what she did, but she is also putting other people in the same situation that she was in. She is taking away people's family and loved ones just as her husband was taken away from her. The saying "two wrongs don't make a right" comes into play when you are thinking about the actions committed by these women. They are just furthering the extent of the violence and pain that the world already experiences on a daily basis. She is causing the same pain and suffering to others that she went through. It is not right if you ask me. In a way she is kind of a hypocrite, because she is using violence to protest violence. It just doesn't make any sense at all. She should have found some non violent way to get retribution for her husband, such as try to find out who did it and bring charges on them. Going to the extreme to kill yourself along with other people was an extreme and wrong decision to make. I am not saying that people should kill themselves, but if she was going to do it because she could not bear the loss of her husband she should have just done it to herself and left the innocent out of it. There is no need to bring others down with you. This woman obviously needed some counseling, because if she could have just learned to deal with her pain and let go, not only could her life have been saved, but the lives of others as well. I just could never understand what kind of mental state you would have to be in to go into a situation with the knowledge that you are definitely going to die in a couple of minutes. I don't even know how she could have stayed focused enough to go through with the attack. I would be the most apprehensive person in the world if I was in that situation. That is why I could never do it. Plus I don't believe in answering violence with more violence. That only furthers the problem and makes you just as bad as the people that you are so opposed to.
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I have always been thinking about one question: what if the hate towards terrorism is misled by the US government? Many proofs can prove that point. The Iraq war is a good example. There weren't any direct evidence saying that Iraq had any relationship with terrorism. Actually the religion environment in Iraq is quite open compared to many other mid east countries. Is war the only solution? I doubt that. In my opinion, the war is unnecessary. There are more important things than that. The hatred is not a good thing. No matter you like it or not.
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Ive always waited for someone to address this subject. I've seen and read alot of things on terrorists, such as terrorists diaries if you ever looked it up. I was intrigued because I couldn't see how so many people could go ahead and take the lives of hundreds of people for something as simple as religion or pride. Morality has to play a role in the mind somewhere especially if they are terrorists who form bonds with Americans here, and then proceed to carry out their terrorist act anyway. These terrorists have children and families and their own life story, its not as simple as people just being goons under a payroll, cause in the end how would they spend the money anyway, but to give it to family.
In Colombia, there used to be a fear of guerillas who worked for drug king pins. My mother herself lost someone in her family to a suicide bomber who blew themselves up for an assasination on a public bus. How does someone get driven to the point where they feel it is worth ending their own lives. People don't think about the mental breakdown, or find anyway to sympathize with these agressors.
On a another subject is vigilantism. People taken justice into their own hands, whether it be against the American government, or against another enemy, there is always an eye for an eye mentality craved for when something is done wrong to another party. I'm not for people fighting over justice actually. I'm pro fighting against wrongdoing, or atleast making a stand if you see something going down that is truly wrong. I think people call the cops for the wrong reasons. I've seen alot of people I know get arrested for the dumbest shit, such as drugs or simple crimes, and actually get put in prison. However, when my friend got stabbed to death, and their were witnesses willing to testify it still took years before the perpetrator got put away, and he might not even stay in prison. I think the justice system is attacking the wrong people. I think the whole eye for an eye thing is pointless. don't get me wrong I'm all about violence and action but not really pro Iraq war. I'm from the New York area, and I still don't believe that we have any reasons fighting this war, or hating on terrorists so terribly.
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It’s interesting now that I think about how vigilantism is romanticized in the United States, but I think it’s done in the same way that say, Piracy is. Its something cool to think about but we all as a society understand why it’s illegal. As far as these suicide bombers are concerned, I think we’ll all agree that there’s always a lot of context needed to fully understand why someone does something like that. Whether the bombing is done avenging a loved one or for a religious crusade can make a big difference. Also, when we think about suicide bombers, the first that comes to my mind at least are those crazies that find themselves a busy street corner and detonate there. Trying to strike back at an occupying force is one thing, maximizing civilian casualties is another.
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This is the big dilemma in the United States’ “War on Terror.” It’s the Americans (mostly Christians) versus the Muslims in the Middle East. It doesn’t matter who strikes first. The other one retaliates with what they believe to be righteous wrath against an evil enemy. This is then repeated in a vicious cycle, with each attack inducing an even more passionate response from the attacked party. So, where does it end? Can anyone ever win? America gets attacked, and then they invade and bomb. Middle Easterners get killed and their family and friends have that much more motivation to fight the Christians. I guess the only way to make things better is to take the hit and be the first one to stop, but is it right to endure an attack and not do anything? An enormous amount of people would be absolutely outraged if America received an attack like those of 9/11 and sat back and didn’t take action. The country would then be perceived as weak and might lose its status in the world, but maybe that’s what it takes. The problem is, nobody wants to be the one who backs down first. We always think “well why don’t they stop, it’s not our obligation to stop first.”
In order to break the vicious cycle, we, meaning people on all sides of the conflict, need to stop looking at things as being so black and white. We need to put ourselves in the shoes of the enemy and see from their perspective, as Sam made the class do on Thursday. We need to see that maybe the things they do are as justified in their minds as our actions are in ours. We also need to realize that the Muslims who commit especially heinous crimes are an extreme minority, just as the Americans who torture prisoners represent a tiny number of disturbed individuals in a sea of good people. I believe that the lecture on Thursday got a lot of people to really start thinking about it. However, I feel like many people may have changed their minds very quickly, which I don’t think is necessarily right. I am afraid that too many people automatically believe the most recent opinion they’ve heard about a subject. We need to take everything we hear and read on an issue and take it all into account before we form our own opinions, not just spout back the last thing we heard.
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You don’t really hear about female suicide bombers too much. I feel as though the most common suicide bombers are men. If you also look at how men and women typically commit suicide in America, men tend to use more definite approaches, like hanging themselves or shooting themselves. Women tend to take the riskier options, like popping pills or slitting their wrists. So the fact that there are more suicide bombers that are men than women can probably be related to that statistic. It is just so sad to see that this woman felt that killing herself was her only option. If a loved one of mine were murdered, by any means, including being a victim of war violence, then I would want to avenge their death. But I would most certainly never kill another innocent person just because I was angry. That is just doing the same thing to another family that had been done to yours. So I don’t know how accurate it would be to say that these people are avenging their loved ones, but who knows, maybe they feel that is the only way they can make an impact.
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I think many of us have an image of what a suicide bomber is supposed to look like in our heads. I see a religious and/or patriotic extremist that is willing to die for their country or religion. I never really thought about suicide bombers from the perspective of this video. If my wife was killed in a civilian shooting, I would be devastated and angry. If this were to happen on top of years of foreign occupation over something like oil, I could totally see myself acting out in revenge. Family is probably the only thing that many of these have in a war like the one taking place in the Middle East. If I had no possessions and my wife was suddenly killed because of the foreign occupation, I think it would be pretty easy to lose control of one’s feelings, thoughts, and emotions. I would live solely on revenge at that point. The war has taken my land, my possessions, and now my wife. I’d be willing to die to revenge what little life I have left.
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This is the big dilemma in the United States’ “War on Terror.” It’s the Americans (mostly Christians) versus the Muslims in the Middle East. It doesn’t matter who strikes first. The other one retaliates with what they believe to be righteous wrath against an evil enemy. This is then repeated in a vicious cycle, with each attack inducing an even more passionate response from the attacked party. So, where does it end? Can anyone ever win? America gets attacked, and then they invade and bomb. Middle Easterners get killed and their family and friends have that much more motivation to fight the Christians. I guess the only way to make things better is to take the hit and be the first one to stop, but is it right to endure an attack and not do anything? An enormous amount of people would be absolutely outraged if America received an attack like those of 9/11 and sat back and didn’t take action. The country would then be perceived as weak and might lose its status in the world, but maybe that’s what it takes. The problem is, nobody wants to be the one who backs down first. We always think “well why don’t they stop, it’s not our obligation to stop first.”
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In order to break the vicious cycle, we, meaning people on all sides of the conflict, need to stop looking at things as being so black and white. We need to put ourselves in the shoes of the enemy and see from their perspective, as Sam made the class do on Thursday. We need to see that maybe the things they do are as justified in their minds as our actions are in ours. We also need to realize that the Muslims who commit especially heinous crimes are an extreme minority, just as the Americans who torture prisoners represent a tiny number of disturbed individuals in a sea of good people. I believe that the lecture on Thursday got a lot of people to really start thinking about it. However, I feel like many people may have changed their minds very quickly, which I don’t think is necessarily right. I am afraid that too many people automatically believe the most recent opinion they’ve heard about a subject. We need to take everything we hear and read on an issue and take it all into account before we form our own opinions, not just spout back the last thing we heard.
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In order to break the vicious cycle, we, meaning people on all sides of the conflict, need to stop looking at things as being so black and white. We need to put ourselves in the shoes of the enemy and see from their perspective, as Sam made the class do on Thursday. We need to see that maybe the things they do are as justified in their minds as our actions are in ours. We also need to realize that the Muslims who commit especially heinous crimes are an extreme minority, just as the Americans who torture prisoners represent a tiny number of disturbed individuals in a sea of good people. I believe that the lecture on Thursday got a lot of people to really start thinking about it.
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However, I feel like many people may have changed their minds very quickly, which I don’t think is necessarily right. I am afraid that too many people automatically believe the most recent opinion they’ve heard about a subject. We need to take everything we hear and read on an issue and take it all into account before we form our own opinions, not just spout back the last thing we heard.
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We have a weird view of what terrorists are and what they stand for. This is because the average American views a terrorist as a person from Muslim descent that happens to willing die for his or her cause. This stereotype has definitely been extremely developed because of the tensions we currently have in the Middle East. There are terrorist organizations all over the world that attack each other in countries that we never even think about. The problem is that these terrorist acts don’t affect us so we don’t really care about them. Terrorists accomplish their goals and gain their power by taking things over by committing acts that cause fear in people, these people eventually give them what they want because they fear what they will do in the future.
Personally I feel that the Middle Eastern people that are attacking us for instance are not as much terrorists as they are loyalists. These people are willing to die for their cause. In the Middle East for example they are willing to die for their cause which is freedom in their own land. We are definitely in their country killing them and their friends and family in order to steal their nature resources. We are essentially doing the same thing to them that we did the Native Americans but no one would ever think about passing judgment on them if they would have done the same thing back in the day. It’s a different time with a society that has more liberal ideas. We are easy to pass judgment against people when we would probably be willing to do the same thing if we had to. It is no secretly that we have a very hypocritical society. It seems that we don’t ever condone war but we are willing to start them for reasons that pertain to us.
I would absolutely be willing to kill myself as a purpose for getting even if I had too. Our country looks down on this idea because our society has gotten away from family values. Muslim had a religion that has an emphasis family values and loyalty within your family. I would be willing be willing to bet that most extremist that kill themselves to kill others probably have a good reason for doing so. Although, they may be irrational in their thought process their loyalty and honor plays has as much influential on their decisions has logical though process. With that said I would only do it for my own personal reason not because my political leaders indirectly force me to do this because of the current tensions in the Middle East. Either way this subject is something that people should take the time to actually sit down and think about more in detail.
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(This goes between my last two posts)
In order to break the vicious cycle, we, meaning people on all sides of the conflict, need to stop looking at things as being so black and white. We need to put ourselves in the shoes of the enemy and see from their perspective, as Sam made the class do on Thursday. We need to see that maybe the things they do are as justified in their minds as our actions are in ours. We also need to realize that the Muslims who commit especially heinous crimes are an extreme minority, just as the Americans who torture prisoners represent a tiny number of disturbed individuals in a sea of good people. I believe that the lecture on Thursday got a lot of people to really start thinking about it.
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Giving that most people won’t think outside their culture when considering the question of whether one would go as far as blowing oneself up as a form of protest for the deaths of family members, the answers here will be very predictable.
My point here is it is extremely difficult to think about the lives of people who would go as far as to kill themselves and others to denounce the current war. This is not to say that killing others is ever ok, but if you saw your family and friends killed, what would you really do?
I mean sure, we all would say we wouldn’t kill someone, but think back to class and living amidst a war that is occurring for reasons you don’t see valid what would you really do?
When I try to understand suicide bombers I think back to movements in the U.S., women’s suffrage, civil rights, and health care, what did people do . . . protest. If we saw our mothers, fathers, partners, friends, sisters, brothers dying, I think we would feel the need to take some sort of action. In the case of war, people may see suicide bombing as the only effective way to make a statement. This is terrible, but by really putting myself in the situation, it makes a little more sense.
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When I read this story and watched this video I tried to put myself in a similar situation to try and understand why someone would take this type of action in order to avenge the loss of a loved one. Obviously I do not live in a world like this woman does in which there are innocent people killed every day in such a manner. I do not have the harder life that many people do outside the United States that fall victim to this type of situation very often and have to deal with the effects of the aftermath brings. I can only imagine the type of mind set I would be in if I were to lose someone in that manner and have to live without them. I do however disagree with the actions carried out in this situation because I feel that violence after a situation such as this does not go on to solve anything. They said that there were three people who were killed during the attack which only causes this cycle to continue. Now three families are without a loved one and are left to wonder why something like this should happen and why violence was turned to in order to solve this issue. We do have a tendency to glorify the vigilante killer in certain aspects but this is not the message we should be sending. It is obviously wrong to use violence to solve an issue even in the event that a loved one is cut down in a way that makes you want to turn to violence to seek revenge. Our law system and the court system that we follow works in a way that we can have justice for crimes that are carried out and committed against us or our loved ones. For those that commit the crimes are hunted down by police and held accountable for their actions. That is the type of system that we should be following, not turning to carrying out acts of violence against those who were responsible. When you turn to a gun or a bomb in a situation like this, you are stooping to the level of the one you are seeking revenge against and it makes you no better than they are. It is a wrong thing to think and a wrong way to bring the perpetrator to justice. I do feel for the families that are in situations when they lose someone and don’t think they have anywhere to turn in order to get their justice, but violence is definitely not the option and killing more people in order to be even is the complete wrong way to do it.
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First off, I don’t agree with the manner of trying to kill yourself by blowing yourself up. This lady blew herself up and killed 34 people while doing it. I don’t agree with this fact, if she just wanted to kill herself why did she have to take all of those unnecessary people that didn’t play a factor in her life. It just doesn’t seem like it is worthwhile for give up your life for someone else because they are your loved one. Giving up your life doesn’t mean anything but to cause more misery and pain to someone else that cares about you.
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I'm missing part of what I wrote above, and I can't get this damn thing to accept what I want to post.
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To me, terrorism is probably one of the biggest things that I am afraid of in this world. It seems like it can happen at any time, any where with out any detection. We have tried to raise our security in many things but that just adds to my fear more since I no longer have certain freedoms of what I can do. Terrorists find loopholes in these new securities, which just adds more strict laws so that pretty soon traveling will be the biggest hassle in the world. Why do they do this? It is because it is a last resort for them because there is not much else that they can do. Thanks to Sam’s Christian Invaders lecture, for the first time I am actually starting to realize why it is that they do this.
The United States has far too much power in the world. We are the only superpower in the world still and it has gone to our heads. We are becoming pseudo-guides to other countries in our minds and think that it is up to us to push our views and such on other countries. We also feel that we need to control as much resources as we can and frankly we have become way too materialistic in this country. The United States consumes about twenty four percent of the world’s energy so we do what we can to get as much resources as we can, even those resources that are not ours. This is what leads us to declaring wars on places so we can get more energy. The government can claim it is for the cause of establishing democracy to the world, but why is it that every place we do that, there is oil?
Why haven’t we tried “liberating” other countries such as Korea or those in Africa? There is no oil there, so it is not worth our time. These people who are committing these suicide runs are doing the only option they can think of to liberate them. We have no right to enter their land, and take it as our own. These people have a right to it, not that it is the right way, but we are not leaving them with much of an option out there. As a so-called super power, our actions do have a major effect on the world. We as a nation need to be careful of what we do. Our actions are causing radical groups to sprout up and preach “Death to America”. Everything is our fault so people should not be blaming the head man of radical groups for creating the terrorism. Once we see that it is really us, then true, justifying action can take place.
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Like many people have said, I too have never thought about war from the enemy's perspective. I mean what we view as an act of terrorism, is in their minds an act of heroism and is encouraged. I guess the "suicide bombers" are just giving the ultimate sacrifice, which is their life, to protect their country and their people.
I also, never took the time to see that maybe they were just trying to protect the lives of loved ones. I mean if I thought that someone was going to come and hurt my family, I would do anything and everything to protect them because they are everything to me, and I know it is the same for those in the Middle East. They are just trying to protect the lives of their families and loved ones.
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Now, saying that, I don't think suicide bombing is the answer. I mean I never have and never will be for war. I believe that there are far more productive ways of solving issues. I'm not sure exactly what can be done, but something needs to be done before any more people get hurt. I just think it is important to take the time to understand these people, though crazy to us, are just trying to fight for their country and their people and I'm sure the same would be true if our country was under attack constantly. I'm sure there are many who would take whatever means possible.
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I think this post relates to the "Christian Invaders" video. I've always thought the people that do things like this are crazy and just want to cause pain and suffering to others. I thought they had no other motive than to kill people and follow the orders they were given. After reading this article and watching the video, I now understand why these people do what they do. Now not all of them are avenging a family members murder like this woman, but the ones who are doing it for this purpose I can agree with. As awful as this sounds, if someone were to kill one of my family members I would absolutely do anything in my power, including giving my life, to ensure that the people who were responsible suffer.
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Wow this was horrific and sad to watch. It blows my mind that suicide bombers are willing to kill themselves like that. It blows my mind that someone even has the guts to blow themselves up. Revenge is sweet, but killing yourself to do so is not. Her husband probably did not deserve to die, so it’s understandable that she felt some sort of way about his death, who wouldn’t? But trying to kill innocent people along with yourself is definitely not the way to go about getting revenge. I think suicide bombers are selfish individuals and I do not see through their perspective what so ever.
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I think we could have avoided this situation a little bit. There has been a lot of anger towards the americans because iraqi's see specific tragic events like civilian tragedies and decided to retaliate. I saw a talk a while ago that had a good idea on how this war should have been handled. Unfortunatly I do not remember the name of the person who was speaking. He said that the war should have been multinational in a different sense, where the Americans do what the do best, destroy enemy combatants, and other people send a force specialized in rebuilding and counter insurgency takes over after. People wouldn't be able to take anger out on the second force due to animosity towards the first one.
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I feel like this is basically an extension of Thursday's lecture and that it takes one to remove themselves from their own situation and view things from the other perspective. I must admit that I always thought of suicide bombers as "crazy people" and it never occurred to me that they might actually be doing that for a reason that meant a lot to them not just to kill innocent people. Obviously I'm not saying that suicide bombing is a good thing to do but if I was put in the same situation in which someone I loved was murdered then I would definitely want to exact some sort of revenge.
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Throughout class yesterday Sam kept saying that these Muslims react to what they see as a threat to their religion, their friends and families lives and theirs and so are moved to do things we all see as immoral and unbelievable. Sam continued to say that they didn’t know all sorts of things that we knew, like how soldiers weren’t all bad and all of them didn’t do the terrible things they particularly reacted to. And that George Bush and others phrased things and exploited words to make everything into something these other people hated so much. And Sam kept saying that although we know that these people are only a minority they don’t. The thing is, if they instilled so much hatred, was this really a minority? I don’t know anything about this subject so I won’t speculate, but how far did this unkindness and hatred filled behavior did these people have to suffer just from our soldiers alone.
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I always thought of "suicide bombers" as people who did not value the beauty of life but after watching the video I have no reason to judge. I am not on that side of the world and do not no the hardships that they face that they might want to relieve the pain that they are going through by partaking in such activity. I mean the women felt like her husband did not deserve to die and he was probably a huge part of her life. That was her future. They were going to have kids and such and now that opportunity was denied because he died. I'm not saying that her decision is correct but the her it is the most logical thing she could have done. She can kill 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, people for the sake of one at her own expense and she is fine with that. That's like the ultimate revenge, we all find some vengeance towards others, why now are we picking how act it out. I wouldn't do it personally because but that's life.
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I understand why they do it. I can't agree with them though. I am strictly against the death penalty, just because I do not believe that any human has the right to take the life of another human, and not based on any religion, just my morals. If someone killed my family, I would not want them to die. As terrible as that would be, and as much as that would completely ruin my life, I would not allow myself to change my morals because of this. Maybe it would be different if it actually happened to me, but filling your body with hatred and vengeance doesn't bring your family back. Obviously, in this case it is different, because they take their own lives as well, not living with the pain of hatred. Murder is murder to me. No matter what the circumstances are, it is still murder. I don't agree with war. You can't solve problems with violence, it just doesn't work that way. We have learned that from the time we were children. But somehow, it is okay if its during war. And it is okay to murder 29 civilians if we can get one bad guy. No, it's not. Everyone was given a chance to live. They deserve it. Killing civilians? Who did nothing, and just have to die because they were born/live in a country that some religious radical lives? Like the atomic bombs we dropped over Hiroshima and Nagasaki; was this justified? Killing all those civilians? I just can't put my finger on it.
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It is difficult to assume the circumstances of a tragic event that has affected your daily life and family. This is mainly because it is a feeling you cannot possess unless it has affected you personally. I can only imagine the hatred and need for vengeance one may experience after losing a significant other. I believe it all to be a matter of self control, but I’m sure many individuals justify the act by theory of “eye for an eye.” I feel as though it is tough to determine what actions I would take after losing a loved one due to a violent intended death, but it is very possible for anyone to be led to that level of helplessness and desperation.
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How could we not create terrorists? Although accidentally, we kill women and children. We destroy homes and families. Local inhabitants of any invaded land are naturally hostile to their intruders. The antagonism increases substantially when innocent individuals are poorly treated and many times, maimed or killed. In any armed conflict the opposing forces create enmity towards each other. These bad feelings only increase when one side, as is the recent position of the United States, depicts certain countries as “outliers” and treats them differently from other nations. Threatening a country with nuclear attack may scare the country’s government into doing what we want but more likely it will force them into a corner and give them no option but to come out fighting.
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