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213315 Responseshttp://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-the-occupied-territories/What+about+the+%22occupied+territories%22%3F2010-04-15+18%3A00%3A19Sam+Richards to What about the “occupied territories”?
I am going to go ahead and answer my own question, the reason I asked this question was simply because I feel if this problem was anywhere else in the world we would probably see some changes. To be honest everyone knows that Israel is a very strong ally of the United States and is the reason that Palestine is not getting justice? If the highest judiciary court in the world ruled that the West Bank and the Gaza Strip belong to Palestine and yet we don’t see anything done. Just last year the war on the Gaza strip according to the Goldschmidt report was basically a massacre on the people in Gaza. Reports came in where Israel’s own military personal said they were bored and had nothing to do. So I ask was this really a war? No, all Palestine wants is their land back and yet there is no hope of them getting their land back. Can the United States change this if they want to of course we are one of the most influential countries in the entire world, but we won’t because then a main ally like Israel will be lost in the Middle East a place where the United States needs a country like Israel. If we really are here to help countries in the world and give equality well this is the perfect opportunity but I doubt we will see a change, because we work for our benefits as much as it hurts to say that’s how we operate like a business.
I believe that the West Bank and the Gaza Strip should belong to the Palestinians. Palestinians live and breathe and have families in those territories. There is no question in my mind that Palestinians living in the occupied territory should have control over their own land. It is their home. However, I disagree that there is no hope of them getting their land back. I very strongly disagree that the Unites States wont change the circumstances and disputes between Israel and Palestine because the United States wishes to maintain an ally in the Middle East. Many strategies have been set on the table. The Camp David Accords in 1978, the 2000 Camp David Summit, and the Taba negotiations in 2001 are all evidence of the United States attempting a solution with Israel and Palestine. Both Israel and Palestine agreed that the Taba negotiations were the closest either side had been to agreement. Unfortunately, a compromise has yet to be settled on. When the 2000 Camp David Summit occurred, a sensible agreement, in my opinion, was discussed. However, the Palestinians rejected the proposal. The Palestinians again rejected proposals during the Taba negotiations. It may be true that no major negotiations have recently occurred, but a conflict as entangled as this one is going to take time to un-knot.
A poll was taken that concluded that 74% of Palestinians and 78% of Israelis are willing to accept a two state solution. If this many people on either side of the conflict agree to live in acceptance with this solution, a greater effort should be made to ensure this compromise occurs. It seems to me as though leaders on both sides of the conflict are being stubborn. Israel, at the moment, is unwilling to compromise with Palestine after Palestine had rejected previous negotiations. Maybe this is where the United States needs to step in. Someone needs to compare the pros and cons of compromise to the opposing sides. Someone needs to remind the leaders of the opposing sides about what the majority of their people want. The outcome and ultimate safety of a country is not about what its leaders think; it’s about how its people wish to live their lives.
Oh dude, the US could care less about Palestine. There should be no question in anyone’s mind of who’s land this belongs to, but Palestine doesn’t have Judeo-Christian values like the US was supposedly founded on. Plus, as soon as Israel starts bombing the shit out of Iran, which I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens, the ties with the US are only going to get stronger.
Anyone with common sense would see the pea-shooter of weapons Palestine shoots at Israel compared to Israel’s GPS guided missiles are unfair. But of course we could care less or better yet, we care less to think about those sorts of issues.
I think that the Palestinian and Israeli conflict is so deep that it is difficult to begin figuring out what to do. The Israelis claim that the land is theirs, while the Palestinians claim that it is not. Even if a court proves that one group of people owns the land, it would be impossible to remove an entire group of people from where the live and where they have become established. I don’t think that Israel will ever be removed and I think they will occupy the land for many years. I think that the Israelis have an advantage since they already occupy the land and because they have the most powerful army in the world.
I think the arabs have a fairly legitimate complaint in regards to this situation. If my understanding on this is correct, which it may not be since I have not taken a history class in a while, Israel was formed under shady conditions from the arabic perspective. After WWI the balfour declaration esentially created a state in the middle east for western zionists. I can see how animosity is created in situations like that. If the United Arab Emirates was just like “hey we're gonna go ahead and take Florida OK?” a lot of americans would be pretty pissed off. At that to the fact that it was formerly the Ottoman empire in WWI, which was on the losing side of the war. I am sure that contributed to a lot of anger too. So the end result was a whole bunch of wars with the West siding with Israel and the Islamic world siding with Palestine.
While I am sympathetic to the cause of the palestinians, I am fairly certain this situation could have been handled more peacefully. Now, that Israel has been inhabited by the Jewish people for so long they are considered that natives of the country. So, I believe the palestinians should have their home land returned. However, they can not simply kick everyone out. The people in Israel are mostly native borns now, why would they leave? Some of the extremists are calling for straight up genocide. Obviously, people like this have been getting in the way of the peace process for decades. That is why I only see one solution to the issue. Compromising to a two state agreement would be peaceful and allow both the Jewish and Arab people to live in Israel.
I think a big thing getting in the way are the extremists on both sides. Some of the westerners are unwilling to listen to any of the arabic people. Some of the middle easterns are unwilling accept the israelis on their land. Each side is polarizing each other. They become farther to the extreme as the see the other side doing the same, preventing a rational solution. Even when Egypt tried to reach a solution, it was ostracized in the Islamic world. That was viewed as a huge step towards peace, which it was considering Egypt's historical willingness to go to war with Israel throughout the mid 20th century, but there is a lot left to be done. Firstly, Islamic fundamentalism need to stop being institutionalized by middle eastern governments. Having religious leaders with legitmate power really destabilizes the region in my opinion. They have too much authority over people without any checks, leading to a lot of corruption. But, I do recognize this might not be feasible. Hopefully things get better.
First of all, you have opened up a can of worms with this issue, and many in the class would be offended by what you said. Nevertheless, my opinion on the whole thing is that our country can no longer to afford to geopolitically and economically dominate the world. So much capital has been poured into defense, finance, and other unproductive industries that the rest of the country's economy is crumbling and produces little of value any more. So, my opinion is that if the U.S. is to renounce its global empire, it should start with pulling out of the Middle East. That includes sending weapons and money to Israel. It will require significant belt-tightening on the part of Americans but I for one think that there is a lot of belt-tightening that can be done in America (by the wealthy and politically connected socioeconomic classes that is, not the growing underclass that is increasingly including whites). Our budget would have money for manufacturing, education, healthcare, and infrastructure if our money stops going to the military, the banking system, the mortgage industry, and to foreign governments such as Taiwan and Israel.
When I first saw this video I immediately thought of one Sam's lectures on us all being guilty of stealing land from the native Americans. I believe this cannot be blamed on the United States, it is the duty of the United Nations to make sure there is no injustice done to any country. I can understand that every country wants to protect its own interests, but it cannot be done at the expense of any other country or people. Thus if the United states is causing problems the United Nations can take action against this.
This is an excellent point that was brought up. But I think it’s very easy to answer: We, as Americans (and as humans), are self-interested, thus with Israel being pretty much our sole ally in the Middle East, we aren’t going to speak out against them even if it is the right thing to do. See, I guess you can say that it wouldn’t be very “strategic” to do that. I think it’s bull shit, but who am I to tell the government what to do. All I can say is that it’s sad but it’s true that we are actually a pretty corrupt society.
The war in the Middle East, especially the war between Israel and the Palestinians is mostly religious based. Israel claims it is their land because that’s where the Zionist movement occurred and they were kicked out by force before they could claim it as their own so it is rightfully theirs. However, the Palestinians also believe it is their homeland. It has become a bloody and long-lasting war and I’m curious to see if there will ever be a resolution between the two countries. I also find it interesting that the United States is not really engaging in this war, and are letting the Israelis defend for themselves.
I think it's sad that the people of Palestine have been left out in the cold for years now by the world anti Israel groups use them as examples of the evil the Israeli and U.S. have caused to the Muslim world. I wrote a history paper about the Gaza strip, but I still can't see how the issue is so polarizing on all fronts. I understand Israel wants stability and security but at the cost of people who are being used as marters is not the way in my opinion. I think that if we are too be seen as a fair country we need to support our allies fairly and that includes the laws of the world. If the Gaza strip is the excuse for hostility against the Israeli people then giving it back could be the solution. I don't think spoils of war is a valid excuse anymore for any civilized countries.
I’m glad that you brought up this topic, because after class I was wondering about it. I was kind of hoping Sam would mention it but he didn’t really talk about it. Perhaps there wasn’t enough time. It also kind of upset when Sam was asking around about what countries are democratic in the Middle East and he mentioned that perhaps Israel was somewhat of a democracy, I feel like this is the view of the West, because to me if we are going by the meaning of democracy (a democracy is a political government carried out either directly by the people (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people) It is meant to avoid uneven distribution of political power. Yet Israel by no means practices this. Israel by no means meets these standards. I mean to me Israel is a terrorist nation. Israel continues to reinforce an occupation whose every element, including the systematic demolition of Palestinian homes, violates international humanitarian law, and particularly the Fourth Geneva Convention. It explains the absolute impunity by which Israel invades Palestinian cities, imposes a permanent closure that impoverishes millions of people or imprisons an entire people behind barbed wire, checkpoints and walls. I’m tired of hearing the same thing over and over that Israel is defending its self. I am sorry but denying people, food, water, medicine an education and imprisoning them behind walls is not defense. It’s called ethnic cleansing and genocide. The problem is a lot of people particularly in the states are not even informed of this because the American media always portrays the Palestinians as the enemies. As a matter of fact getting the information from any other international newspaper is better than relying on American media especially when it comes to international affairs. I mean this conflict has been going for over 60 years and we still haven’t done anything to stop this?? This is just unacceptable. Of course if asked about the South African apartheid or the genocide in Rwanda anyone would stand up and say yes that was unacceptable I would have been the first to do something to stop that injustice. Yet this is happening today and why are we not taking a bigger stance to help out? Israel might one of the U.S.’s biggest ally but this doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be held to the same standards as every other country. And if you say that you don’t want to be political or take a stance, well I’m sorry but you are already a part of this if you live in the states and pay taxes because our tax money is buying the weapons that the Israeli army uses to kill innocent civilians every day. I honestly hope that this conflict can be resolved soon and the U.S. seriously needs to step up and hold Israel responsible for its crimes. I think that once this conflict is solved the relationship between the U.S. and the Middle East will definitely improve.
While it is evident that you are knowledgeable on the issue at hand I believe there are several key points that you fail to mention in your argument. I can say I agree to disagree on most your points. It is true that the Israelis have been treating the Palestinians like shit for some time now and I would not go as far to defend any of their actions. It seems you have your mind made up on the issue so I want to throw some counter ideas out just to create some debate.
The fact of the matter though is that both sides have tremendous pride and are unwilling to give the other any leeway in fear that it will come back to haunt them. You argue that Israel is not defending themselves by creating the checkpoints and treating the Palestinians like shit but in reality they are, whether it is moral or not. Yes, there are many civilians that suffer because of their actions but their argument would be that if they did not create these barriers, civilians on the other side would suffer from the terrorist activity created from within the checkpoint. I went to Israel this past summer and yes, the divide is as bad as you make it out to be but there are definitely strides being made for improvement as we speak.
The whole notion that there is one right and one wrong side is pretty inconspicuous. You cannot say that Israel should be held accountable for all of their “crimes” without looking at the picture from a more holistic point of view. Israel is continually attacked from those around them and from those within that do not agree with the fact that they should be a nation. Are they supposed to sit back and let themselves be terrorized? That’s nonsense; the only way you could make that argument is if you were anti-Israel (which can only be inferred from your post because you did not directly say that). If the Israelis were to knock down all of barriers created, they would lose the control they have established of their boundaries.
What you fail to mention in your argument about the US tax dollars used to provide Israeli military support is that our money also goes into denying terrorism within Israeli and around the globe. While it is true that some of weapons that we provide kill civilians, but what war have we ever been apart of that has not killed civilians? How is it any different from us using our weapons that kill civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan?
The economic development being made by Israel is the exact same thing that goes on here in the US. Israel is looking to create jobs and make nicer places by kicking those who already live there out. Look to any economic development done in US cities today and you will see the exact same thing happen.
Like I said, many of your arguments are valid but I think before you sit back and make Israel out to be the next Nazi regime, you should put yourselves in their shoes.
The “war” between Palestine and Israel has been going on for years now and I don’t think that America has any say on who really owns the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The maps show that the West bank is owned by the Palestinians but they are surrounded by Israeli territory. Everything is so close together that it is hard to actually determine who owns what. This war has allegedly been going on since biblical times I don’t see it ending anytime soon. Both the Jewish and Arabs are not willing to come to a compromise. Even as the highest judicial court in the world might say that the Gaza Strip and the West Bank belongs to the Palestine they Israelis will not give up without a fight especially since they have been fighting for this for years.
So I am an American girl living in this country my whole life. I have seen the fighting going on in the Middle East and as an American I feel like it is so far away from me. I feel that I can do nothing about it
Yet I am also a Jew. When I heard this question I was a bit taken back because I did not know how to respond. I completely understand Palestine and their want for part of Israel, but have you looked at Israel? It is a very tiny country that we call home. We got granted this little piece of land that is surrounded by huge powerful countries in the Middle East. It is like being a nerd surrounded by big bullies. We fought for years to call this our land, and I would hope you can understand our side that says that we deserve to have all of Israel to call home.
I am not saying by any means that people of other religions should not be allowed to live in Israel, but to take some of it away would take away a piece of home. Realistically no one can ever live in complete peace, people always want something. I do not know what the answer is on how to make peace in Israel, but I do have my feelings and opinions.
A trademark of the conflict has been the level of violence witnessed for virtually its entire duration. Casualties have not been restricted to the military, with a large number of fatalities in civilian population on both sides.
It is tragic that fighting has to go on, but as you are fighting for what is yours, so are the Israelis. The Jewish people are a minority and we just want it to be our birthright that we can go to Israel and be safe there.
My grandpa is a Holocaust survivor. He went through five concentration camps in three years. By the time he was fourteen he lost three brothers and his mother in Auschwitz. His father was separated and buried alive in another camp. At the age of fourteen he was alone and on his own completely after being traumatized and brutalized. When he finally made it to America, he saw the struggle to claim Israel as the land of our people. For generations, we had nowhere to call home, especially my grandpa. The day Israel became a country and our home, my grandpa wept out of happiness. He also cried of sadness because his family could not see this glorious occasion.
He has told me all of my life, that if I ever feel lost, or even if I lose everything like he did, at least I will have a home to go to. So I understand your side completely that you just want a home also and that you claim it is “your land” but can you understand my side as well?
I am going to go ahead and answer my own question, the reason I asked this question was simply because I feel if this problem was anywhere else in the world we would probably see some changes. To be honest everyone knows that Israel is a very strong ally of the United States and is the reason that Palestine is not getting justice? If the highest judiciary court in the world ruled that the West Bank and the Gaza Strip belong to Palestine and yet we don’t see anything done. Just last year the war on the Gaza strip according to the Goldschmidt report was basically a massacre on the people in Gaza. Reports came in where Israel’s own military personal said they were bored and had nothing to do. So I ask was this really a war? No, all Palestine wants is their land back and yet there is no hope of them getting their land back. Can the United States change this if they want to of course we are one of the most influential countries in the entire world, but we won’t because then a main ally like Israel will be lost in the Middle East a place where the United States needs a country like Israel. If we really are here to help countries in the world and give equality well this is the perfect opportunity but I doubt we will see a change, because we work for our benefits as much as it hurts to say that’s how we operate like a business.
[Reply]
nms5201 Reply:
April 16th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
I believe that the West Bank and the Gaza Strip should belong to the Palestinians. Palestinians live and breathe and have families in those territories. There is no question in my mind that Palestinians living in the occupied territory should have control over their own land. It is their home. However, I disagree that there is no hope of them getting their land back. I very strongly disagree that the Unites States wont change the circumstances and disputes between Israel and Palestine because the United States wishes to maintain an ally in the Middle East. Many strategies have been set on the table. The Camp David Accords in 1978, the 2000 Camp David Summit, and the Taba negotiations in 2001 are all evidence of the United States attempting a solution with Israel and Palestine. Both Israel and Palestine agreed that the Taba negotiations were the closest either side had been to agreement. Unfortunately, a compromise has yet to be settled on. When the 2000 Camp David Summit occurred, a sensible agreement, in my opinion, was discussed. However, the Palestinians rejected the proposal. The Palestinians again rejected proposals during the Taba negotiations. It may be true that no major negotiations have recently occurred, but a conflict as entangled as this one is going to take time to un-knot.
A poll was taken that concluded that 74% of Palestinians and 78% of Israelis are willing to accept a two state solution. If this many people on either side of the conflict agree to live in acceptance with this solution, a greater effort should be made to ensure this compromise occurs. It seems to me as though leaders on both sides of the conflict are being stubborn. Israel, at the moment, is unwilling to compromise with Palestine after Palestine had rejected previous negotiations. Maybe this is where the United States needs to step in. Someone needs to compare the pros and cons of compromise to the opposing sides. Someone needs to remind the leaders of the opposing sides about what the majority of their people want. The outcome and ultimate safety of a country is not about what its leaders think; it’s about how its people wish to live their lives.
[Reply]
Veggie_man Reply:
April 20th, 2010 at 5:45 am
Oh dude, the US could care less about Palestine. There should be no question in anyone’s mind of who’s land this belongs to, but Palestine doesn’t have Judeo-Christian values like the US was supposedly founded on. Plus, as soon as Israel starts bombing the shit out of Iran, which I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens, the ties with the US are only going to get stronger.
Anyone with common sense would see the pea-shooter of weapons Palestine shoots at Israel compared to Israel’s GPS guided missiles are unfair. But of course we could care less or better yet, we care less to think about those sorts of issues.
[Reply]
I think that the Palestinian and Israeli conflict is so deep that it is difficult to begin figuring out what to do. The Israelis claim that the land is theirs, while the Palestinians claim that it is not. Even if a court proves that one group of people owns the land, it would be impossible to remove an entire group of people from where the live and where they have become established. I don’t think that Israel will ever be removed and I think they will occupy the land for many years. I think that the Israelis have an advantage since they already occupy the land and because they have the most powerful army in the world.
[Reply]
yesec9 Reply:
April 16th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
**they only have the most powerful army because we send them money and weapons**
[Reply]
I think the arabs have a fairly legitimate complaint in regards to this situation. If my understanding on this is correct, which it may not be since I have not taken a history class in a while, Israel was formed under shady conditions from the arabic perspective. After WWI the balfour declaration esentially created a state in the middle east for western zionists. I can see how animosity is created in situations like that. If the United Arab Emirates was just like “hey we're gonna go ahead and take Florida OK?” a lot of americans would be pretty pissed off. At that to the fact that it was formerly the Ottoman empire in WWI, which was on the losing side of the war. I am sure that contributed to a lot of anger too. So the end result was a whole bunch of wars with the West siding with Israel and the Islamic world siding with Palestine.
While I am sympathetic to the cause of the palestinians, I am fairly certain this situation could have been handled more peacefully. Now, that Israel has been inhabited by the Jewish people for so long they are considered that natives of the country. So, I believe the palestinians should have their home land returned. However, they can not simply kick everyone out. The people in Israel are mostly native borns now, why would they leave? Some of the extremists are calling for straight up genocide. Obviously, people like this have been getting in the way of the peace process for decades. That is why I only see one solution to the issue. Compromising to a two state agreement would be peaceful and allow both the Jewish and Arab people to live in Israel.
I think a big thing getting in the way are the extremists on both sides. Some of the westerners are unwilling to listen to any of the arabic people. Some of the middle easterns are unwilling accept the israelis on their land. Each side is polarizing each other. They become farther to the extreme as the see the other side doing the same, preventing a rational solution. Even when Egypt tried to reach a solution, it was ostracized in the Islamic world. That was viewed as a huge step towards peace, which it was considering Egypt's historical willingness to go to war with Israel throughout the mid 20th century, but there is a lot left to be done. Firstly, Islamic fundamentalism need to stop being institutionalized by middle eastern governments. Having religious leaders with legitmate power really destabilizes the region in my opinion. They have too much authority over people without any checks, leading to a lot of corruption. But, I do recognize this might not be feasible. Hopefully things get better.
[Reply]
First of all, you have opened up a can of worms with this issue, and many in the class would be offended by what you said. Nevertheless, my opinion on the whole thing is that our country can no longer to afford to geopolitically and economically dominate the world. So much capital has been poured into defense, finance, and other unproductive industries that the rest of the country's economy is crumbling and produces little of value any more. So, my opinion is that if the U.S. is to renounce its global empire, it should start with pulling out of the Middle East. That includes sending weapons and money to Israel. It will require significant belt-tightening on the part of Americans but I for one think that there is a lot of belt-tightening that can be done in America (by the wealthy and politically connected socioeconomic classes that is, not the growing underclass that is increasingly including whites). Our budget would have money for manufacturing, education, healthcare, and infrastructure if our money stops going to the military, the banking system, the mortgage industry, and to foreign governments such as Taiwan and Israel.
[Reply]
When I first saw this video I immediately thought of one Sam's lectures on us all being guilty of stealing land from the native Americans. I believe this cannot be blamed on the United States, it is the duty of the United Nations to make sure there is no injustice done to any country. I can understand that every country wants to protect its own interests, but it cannot be done at the expense of any other country or people. Thus if the United states is causing problems the United Nations can take action against this.
[Reply]
This is an excellent point that was brought up. But I think it’s very easy to answer: We, as Americans (and as humans), are self-interested, thus with Israel being pretty much our sole ally in the Middle East, we aren’t going to speak out against them even if it is the right thing to do. See, I guess you can say that it wouldn’t be very “strategic” to do that. I think it’s bull shit, but who am I to tell the government what to do. All I can say is that it’s sad but it’s true that we are actually a pretty corrupt society.
[Reply]
The war in the Middle East, especially the war between Israel and the Palestinians is mostly religious based. Israel claims it is their land because that’s where the Zionist movement occurred and they were kicked out by force before they could claim it as their own so it is rightfully theirs. However, the Palestinians also believe it is their homeland. It has become a bloody and long-lasting war and I’m curious to see if there will ever be a resolution between the two countries. I also find it interesting that the United States is not really engaging in this war, and are letting the Israelis defend for themselves.
[Reply]
I think it's sad that the people of Palestine have been left out in the cold for years now by the world anti Israel groups use them as examples of the evil the Israeli and U.S. have caused to the Muslim world. I wrote a history paper about the Gaza strip, but I still can't see how the issue is so polarizing on all fronts. I understand Israel wants stability and security but at the cost of people who are being used as marters is not the way in my opinion. I think that if we are too be seen as a fair country we need to support our allies fairly and that includes the laws of the world. If the Gaza strip is the excuse for hostility against the Israeli people then giving it back could be the solution. I don't think spoils of war is a valid excuse anymore for any civilized countries.
[Reply]
I’m glad that you brought up this topic, because after class I was wondering about it. I was kind of hoping Sam would mention it but he didn’t really talk about it. Perhaps there wasn’t enough time. It also kind of upset when Sam was asking around about what countries are democratic in the Middle East and he mentioned that perhaps Israel was somewhat of a democracy, I feel like this is the view of the West, because to me if we are going by the meaning of democracy (a democracy is a political government carried out either directly by the people (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people) It is meant to avoid uneven distribution of political power. Yet Israel by no means practices this. Israel by no means meets these standards. I mean to me Israel is a terrorist nation. Israel continues to reinforce an occupation whose every element, including the systematic demolition of Palestinian homes, violates international humanitarian law, and particularly the Fourth Geneva Convention. It explains the absolute impunity by which Israel invades Palestinian cities, imposes a permanent closure that impoverishes millions of people or imprisons an entire people behind barbed wire, checkpoints and walls. I’m tired of hearing the same thing over and over that Israel is defending its self. I am sorry but denying people, food, water, medicine an education and imprisoning them behind walls is not defense. It’s called ethnic cleansing and genocide. The problem is a lot of people particularly in the states are not even informed of this because the American media always portrays the Palestinians as the enemies. As a matter of fact getting the information from any other international newspaper is better than relying on American media especially when it comes to international affairs. I mean this conflict has been going for over 60 years and we still haven’t done anything to stop this?? This is just unacceptable. Of course if asked about the South African apartheid or the genocide in Rwanda anyone would stand up and say yes that was unacceptable I would have been the first to do something to stop that injustice. Yet this is happening today and why are we not taking a bigger stance to help out? Israel might one of the U.S.’s biggest ally but this doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be held to the same standards as every other country. And if you say that you don’t want to be political or take a stance, well I’m sorry but you are already a part of this if you live in the states and pay taxes because our tax money is buying the weapons that the Israeli army uses to kill innocent civilians every day. I honestly hope that this conflict can be resolved soon and the U.S. seriously needs to step up and hold Israel responsible for its crimes. I think that once this conflict is solved the relationship between the U.S. and the Middle East will definitely improve.
[Reply]
tgoldwater Reply:
April 19th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
While it is evident that you are knowledgeable on the issue at hand I believe there are several key points that you fail to mention in your argument. I can say I agree to disagree on most your points. It is true that the Israelis have been treating the Palestinians like shit for some time now and I would not go as far to defend any of their actions. It seems you have your mind made up on the issue so I want to throw some counter ideas out just to create some debate.
The fact of the matter though is that both sides have tremendous pride and are unwilling to give the other any leeway in fear that it will come back to haunt them. You argue that Israel is not defending themselves by creating the checkpoints and treating the Palestinians like shit but in reality they are, whether it is moral or not. Yes, there are many civilians that suffer because of their actions but their argument would be that if they did not create these barriers, civilians on the other side would suffer from the terrorist activity created from within the checkpoint. I went to Israel this past summer and yes, the divide is as bad as you make it out to be but there are definitely strides being made for improvement as we speak.
The whole notion that there is one right and one wrong side is pretty inconspicuous. You cannot say that Israel should be held accountable for all of their “crimes” without looking at the picture from a more holistic point of view. Israel is continually attacked from those around them and from those within that do not agree with the fact that they should be a nation. Are they supposed to sit back and let themselves be terrorized? That’s nonsense; the only way you could make that argument is if you were anti-Israel (which can only be inferred from your post because you did not directly say that). If the Israelis were to knock down all of barriers created, they would lose the control they have established of their boundaries.
What you fail to mention in your argument about the US tax dollars used to provide Israeli military support is that our money also goes into denying terrorism within Israeli and around the globe. While it is true that some of weapons that we provide kill civilians, but what war have we ever been apart of that has not killed civilians? How is it any different from us using our weapons that kill civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan?
The economic development being made by Israel is the exact same thing that goes on here in the US. Israel is looking to create jobs and make nicer places by kicking those who already live there out. Look to any economic development done in US cities today and you will see the exact same thing happen.
Like I said, many of your arguments are valid but I think before you sit back and make Israel out to be the next Nazi regime, you should put yourselves in their shoes.
[Reply]
The “war” between Palestine and Israel has been going on for years now and I don’t think that America has any say on who really owns the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The maps show that the West bank is owned by the Palestinians but they are surrounded by Israeli territory. Everything is so close together that it is hard to actually determine who owns what. This war has allegedly been going on since biblical times I don’t see it ending anytime soon. Both the Jewish and Arabs are not willing to come to a compromise. Even as the highest judicial court in the world might say that the Gaza Strip and the West Bank belongs to the Palestine they Israelis will not give up without a fight especially since they have been fighting for this for years.
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So I am an American girl living in this country my whole life. I have seen the fighting going on in the Middle East and as an American I feel like it is so far away from me. I feel that I can do nothing about it
Yet I am also a Jew. When I heard this question I was a bit taken back because I did not know how to respond. I completely understand Palestine and their want for part of Israel, but have you looked at Israel? It is a very tiny country that we call home. We got granted this little piece of land that is surrounded by huge powerful countries in the Middle East. It is like being a nerd surrounded by big bullies. We fought for years to call this our land, and I would hope you can understand our side that says that we deserve to have all of Israel to call home.
I am not saying by any means that people of other religions should not be allowed to live in Israel, but to take some of it away would take away a piece of home. Realistically no one can ever live in complete peace, people always want something. I do not know what the answer is on how to make peace in Israel, but I do have my feelings and opinions.
A trademark of the conflict has been the level of violence witnessed for virtually its entire duration. Casualties have not been restricted to the military, with a large number of fatalities in civilian population on both sides.
It is tragic that fighting has to go on, but as you are fighting for what is yours, so are the Israelis. The Jewish people are a minority and we just want it to be our birthright that we can go to Israel and be safe there.
My grandpa is a Holocaust survivor. He went through five concentration camps in three years. By the time he was fourteen he lost three brothers and his mother in Auschwitz. His father was separated and buried alive in another camp. At the age of fourteen he was alone and on his own completely after being traumatized and brutalized. When he finally made it to America, he saw the struggle to claim Israel as the land of our people. For generations, we had nowhere to call home, especially my grandpa. The day Israel became a country and our home, my grandpa wept out of happiness. He also cried of sadness because his family could not see this glorious occasion.
He has told me all of my life, that if I ever feel lost, or even if I lose everything like he did, at least I will have a home to go to. So I understand your side completely that you just want a home also and that you claim it is “your land” but can you understand my side as well?
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