This website uses IntenseDebate comments, but they are not currently loaded because either your browser doesn't support JavaScript, or they didn't load fast enough.
205739 Responseshttp://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-the-women-issue/What+about+the+women+issue%3F2010-04-02+17%3A49%3A45Sam+Richards to What about the women issue?
It doesn't change my opinion of affirmative action. I still believe affirmative action is both good in its intentions, but stupid in its execution. It is one of the very few issues I simply do not have a steady stance on. As a person of Indian descent, I definitely do not want a job, or a merit, or a diploma, simply because of my nationality. Call me backwards, but I want to earn what I get. I feel this way about any benefitters of affirmative action, whether it be black men, white women, black women, Asian children, Eastern European homosexuals, etc… ANYTHING. If somebody is truly and genuinely qualified for something, they should get it, regardless of what their skin color is. If somebody else is more qualified than they are, then that person should get it. Simple. I do think nepotism and affirmative action are two very different things, however. When you help out a family member, you already know their character and attributes, as they relate to the position at hand. Affirmative action is just blind in its superficial distribution of benefits.
No, this does not change my mind on my views of Affirmative Action. I have already knew that Affirmative Action was designed to benefit women and I am not surprised that white women are the one who benefited the most from it. After all, the majority of the women population in the United States belongs to the white race. I am glad that Sam Richards explained the situation to the class because I knew that vast amount of the white people in the class always thought that Affirmative Action is geared towards the benefits of the people of color. It was too bad that a good amount of the class were not there to learned what Affirmative Action really is. Nevertheless, I feel like more whites are now rethinking their views of Affirmative Action after that class.
i agree with what you are saying. this was made so that women, people with disabilities and veterans and primarily African Americans who were denied employment could have an equal opportunity. i am not surprised that white woman have benefited the most from this. white women control a great deal of the population in the united states and it was considered for many years that they could not do the job of a man and this has helped them greatly. at first i thought it only helped African Americans but now that i know it helps white women too and that they benefit the most i have to say i am not surprised
I agree with Akeem10, I am glad Sam talked about this issue to educate a lot of the white students about affirmative action. A lot of times they see black kids on campus and assume we are only here because affirmative action. I know some people may try to deny it but it was evident in many of the classes. Whites would bring up affirmative action and talk how it is unfair. It is fair if the people are starting without the same advantages as you. Sam’s example about the Obamas was a good comparison. Truth is many of the people of color could think as analytically, speak as eloquently, and behave as civil ( or better) than whites.
I think and have always thought that affirmative action works in many ways. I don’t feel any differently when It comes to getting benefits because you are of a different race. For example, I am a woman and I’m black, but that doesn’t change the fact that I may be a “minority” in a particular situation.
Back when civil rights were passed, women’s suffrage was still going on. Women weren’t able to have the same rights as men, I mean think of what it was like to be back in that era. I am a black woman, so I barely had ANY rights. The point of affirmative action is to give a leg up to those who may not have the same advantage as someone else does. It’s supposed to make up for it, and lessen the gap between the two. So in any case, practically anyone can reap the benefits of affirmative action for themselves. If you were the only woman, you might have received a benefit. Maybe one of the few minorities in the room, you may have had some help.
What I kind of want to bring up is something Sam said a while back. Sometimes we don’t know if we are benefitting from affirmative action. Penn State kind of needs minority students. I know I did very good in high school and I have always been a person who worked hard… but was that because I got into the high school I went to, or because I grew up in the neighborhood I did or was raised the way I was raised? Thinking about affirmative action scares me because that may mean I’m doing something somewhere simply because of the fact that I am a minority, not because I am a talented person.
Now to answer the question, I really don’t feel any way about others benefitting from affirmative action because it wasn’t really made specifically for minorities – that’s just want it’s known for. I feel that anyone who is deserving of it should benefit from it. Obviously if your parents make over a million a year, you wouldn’t get a scholarship. Or, if your parents have contacts with a Fortune 500 Company, you don’t need that edge in a job interview. I feel that whoever needs the help, gets the help as long as their willing and qualified to do it. I don’t believe in hand outs. You work hard for what you get, despite what affirmative action may prove.
The reason why its there is because it’s honestly needed and someone generally have a benefit without it. Like Sam said, being white has a benefit to it. People may choose a white guy over a black guy because they are white. Affirmative action helps to fix the blatant discrimination and give minorities who ARE fully capable of doing the job to get a chance to actually do it.
I am not responding directly to the video’s question so I know this is a bit off-topic, but I was thinking today about the guy in the red jersey who said in class yesterday that he didn’t understand why anyone should feel bad about the nepotism issue. At first I, like many people in the class, sort of just shook my head and thought “wow how can this kid not realize what’s wrong here”. However, although I still don’t agree with the principle by itself, I have a few issues with everyone being completely against it. First, if you get a job at a bank over more qualified people (for example because your father is a CEO) that is clearly not really fair for the other people vying for the job. But you really need to think from the perspective as the one with the CEO father instead of the other applicants. To start with, the son didn’t choose for his dad to be a big-shot CEO and his father being in a position to help him out has now enabled him to make his own choice. While for other applicants its up to people at the bank hiring, for this kid it becomes his choice whether to take the position. So, if he takes the position he clearly had an unfair advantage, but he now has a great job with great benefits and is set for life. Or, he can simply choose not to take the job (even though he is more or less eligible for it even if he isn’t the strongest applicant). If he chooses the latter than he subsequently settles for a second-rate job with fewer benefits, less pay, and less prestige. How many people in our 700-person class are honestly going to choose NOT to take the nepotism-fueled position because it’s “not fair”. I wouldn’t dare try to say I wouldn’t because I think if the situation arose and I could have a better job to provide more for my family it’s an easy choice. The only real downside is knowing that someone I have never met (not necessarily of a different color/ethnicity) doesn’t get the position even though they might have deserved it more than me. Call me an ass but I’m sorry I am going to take the position. As long as I’m not doing anything that is obviously and forcefully illegal, to the point where I could actually go to jail for accepting it (unlikely since my father would be the CEO of the bank and he can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants), I don’t see how I CANT take the job. It just seems too difficult a choice to make for someone that I don’t know and for all I know could be some pompous adulterer. I guess my overall point is that its easy to sit back and complain about nepotism when you are not on the receiving end but that same person is likely going to accept any benefits they can get when the opportunity comes calling. And that goes for people of all colors…
As a 20 year old black female, I feel like this is a very interesting point. I have always been a supporter of affirmative action. Why? Because my people deserve it, that's why. The white members of our society have such an advantage over us colored folk. And, affirmative action, from what I believed, was supposed to help people of color in necessary situations. I hate Sam Richards for telling me this new truth. I feel as if I have believed in something my whole life, and now I am told it is a lie. Let me tell you a story that comes to mind. A rich white boy and I were both applying for the french fry job at McDonalds. There was an intense try out, consisting of 48 straight hours of making french fries and switching out the grease. I actually slipped up and burnt several batches of my fries. But since we both completed the tryout, I was given the job due to what I believed was affirmative action. Good thing I was not competing against some white girl.
Harsh, don't you think? Affirmative action was said to MOSTLY help white women, not totally and completely. And I think it's pretty pathetic you would only support affirmative action because it helps "your people." Shouldn't you be happy no matter who it helps? It's helping people who don't have an equal opportunity at a job or school or whatever the case. The point is, it is benefitting someone who is at a disadvantage. I understand why you believe colored people are at a greater disadvantage in society, but women in general are at a disadvantage in society. So maybe, as a 20 year old FEMALE, you should still be a little grateful that your fellow women are having an equal playing field with men.
I support affirmative action, for those who deserve it. Just because you are black doesnt mean you deserve it. That is outrageous. There are plenty of people, black, hispanic, indian, chinese, white who need it. If you deserve it, you will probably get it. It is there for people who dont have an equal opportunity, and just because you are black doesnt mean you dont always have an equal opportunity. Yes, being white does give someone an advantage sometimes, but not all the time. Being black does not automatically mean you are considered inferior to white people or any other race for that matter. And how do you know that white boy was rich? I just want to point out that you go to Penn State, an expensive school.
When I heard that affirmative action was mostly given to women, and especially white women, I was completely shocked. I never would have guessed this because I think that most people believed that much of the affirmative action is used to help people of color. As a white male, I feel as though this would change a person’s mind and people may become bitterer about the topic. I know that many people thought that black and brown people received the benefits of affirmative action, so I don’t see how this information wouldn’t anger people. I know that if I were the one being affected, I would be upset that a program that was set up to help people like myself was going to people who we least expected.
I do not have any feelings that have been changed about affirmative action. I feel that it has changed with the times and the women were beneficiaries since they had to face sexism in he workplace and still do. I feel that all sorts of injustices should be dealt with. If it happens to be that white women benefit, then it just happens. I am not going to run around and blow whistles and cry foul. Affirmative action is meant to help people who face prejudices and disadvantages. It is not limited to the color of your skin or your sex or any type of physical you have. In some way shape or form, affirmative action has benefited a good majority of us.
I am not surprised at all that the main beneficiaries of affirmitive action are women. Think about it.. White man are the ones who structured affirmitive action, they formed affirmitive action in a way that it would ultimitaly help them out. For instance white males, overall run the government/America they felt the pressures of inequality, they obviously see it. They probably thought well.. we need to find a way to "help" out the minorities and the number 1 minoritiy white males are most inclined to help are women. White women that is. They were able to create affirmitive action and define how they would establish it in way that makes America look like its actually attempting to fix and help out the less fortunate. Their plan was/is perfect. They make themselves look good at a bull shit scheme while in turn they are helping white women. Who are these white women marrying.. White men. Then they have kids that are white and then their kids are able to have two parents with very good jobs. i know its far from this simple but, i believe affirmitive action was put into place to help white men. They knew how this would effect them, and its affecting them very positively.I know minorities like blacks and hispanics are recieving some small sort of benefit also but its much slower then what people think it actually is. Again im not surprise. This is how America has been ran and this is how it will continue to run. Those on top stay on top. (white people). White men to be more exact. And now with affrimitive action these white men are starting to feel guilty about being on top so the create affrimitve action. But they made it to only help the person lying on the other side of the bed at night, next to them, their wives. They "kept it in the family".I think that the wives of these men have had lots of arguments about how they dont think its fair for them to stay home all day taking care of the kids and cooking. And that they would like to pursue an education and attempt to have their own careers and it seems after alot of conversation between the two aka nagging by the wife. The men all got together and thought up affirmitive action but painted it with a black and brown brush. Which makes them look like they did not for colored people but inturn they did it to better their families and themselves it just happened that colored people are able to recieve the off target minor benefits fromt this whole thing. I know alot of people are going to read this and think wow am i serious about what im saying and I am. This plot almost sounds too good to be schemed up but its not and it was.
When I heard that affirmative action was mostly given to women that did not shock me. But when I heard that affirmative action was mostly given to white women, that was very shocking to me. The reason it did not shock me to begin with that women received the benefits of affirmative action is because I pictured black women, brown women, yellow women, and so on and so forth. I was not picturing little white women reaping the benefits of the affirmative action, I was picturing the minority women. I think that this is unfair because white people already have such advantages over black people, and brown people, and yellow people, and all of these other colors that are considered the minority in our country. If affirmative action is supposed to help the less fortunate and the people who need helping, then I guess I just do not understand why it would ever go to help white women. I understand the fact that women are considered the minority on the whole between men and women but I feel that in this day and age the difference between men and women is a thing of the past more or less and that the difference between races has gotten better, but it is much further from equality than men and women are. I feel that affirmative action is just a crutch that people can use in order to hire more white people…even if they are women. I do not think that this was the purpose that was intended for the affirmative action laws. I think it was supposed to be more directed towards people of color and even if it was not supposed to be directed more towards people of color and that it was supposed to be weighed just as heavily upon women, I feel that that assumption or that law, it would now be necessary to alter that rule because of the shift in society. If that law only does more to influence white women in business or the work place then that is no longer the focus and that is now an antiquated law. I myself am a white woman and yes, it is nice to know that my "species" (if you can even call white women a specific species) is flourishing, but I really do not think that that should be a result of affirmative action because I think that that should not be the purpose of the law. It is almost as if the creators of the law made a secret clause in it and just publicized it as a law for the advancement of colored people. I think that there should be a change made to the wording of the law so that it can serve it's intended purpose.
When Sam mentioned that white women benefit most from affirmative action, I honestly was not that surprised. I knew that minorities benefit most from affirmative action, but many still seem to forget that women are minorities too. Now, I am not trying to take away the fact that other minorities have it rougher than I do. Sam says that we have power as white people and I see it every day from people who look down on racial minorities before they even say one word. People do not always seem to remember that women make less money than a man in the same position. I do understand this is getting better, but we are still looked down upon for simply being female.
I honestly think I was hired for my first job because I am female. I had no prior experience whatsoever and I was interviewing in an electronic store. Everyone knows that males dominate those jobs, and it was very apparent when I started working there and the female to male employee ratio was in the teens. I also think that the company knows that and that managers in a way seek out females for positions when we show interest. I also remember being told about a male and the female in the same position were not being paid the same. The female had even been with the company longer than the male. Of course, they tell you not to share your salary with anyone, but they were friends and it came out one day. Granted, yes, they did raise her salary when she brought it up, but for that year of thinking they were making the same, she was cheated.
I think that anyone with the desire to succeed should be given a chance to prove themselves. I do not think I was an exceptional student (by my standards) in high school enough to grant me access to Penn State, but I was accepted for some reason. I just wanted a big university that had my major. I am out of state and not wealthy by any means, living with a single parent who is a teacher. I was accepted for some reason and flooded with financial aid, which is really what made it possible for me to attend. Why was I chosen among thousands for this aid over others? I do not know, but I know they were trying to give me a shot to succeed.
I do not believe affirmative action to be preferential treatment, but I think it benefits those who need it and benefit from it legitimately. I will never know for sure why I have gone through the path that I have, but if I have others to credit then I jump at that chance. While you need to be able to make it on your own, it can be more important to accept help from those willing to provide it.
I don't think knowing that affirmative action mainly benefits white women changes my perspective about it. Affirmative action is there to balance social inequality and if that means that women are going to benefit from it, so be it. Also, I think that whatever race you are your perspective to affirmative action should not be affected. As an Indian girl, I don't think I have ever benefited from affirmative action. Most white people automatically assume that affirmative action has benefited people of color. I have to work as hard as anyone at my high school to get into Penn State. As long as some other under represented groups benefit from affirmative action, it is completely fine with me.
Affirmative Action is good in intention but bad in action. I was surprised to learn that most affirmative action plans benefit white females. Like another blogger said, most of the women deserving of this are white because white is the majority race. This goes hand in hand with nepotism. Affirmative actions really should be given to those in need, but if we are all equal, well that’s called communism and an entirely whole other issue. Anyways, I think the government needs to rethink their policy on affirmative action and truly give it to those people who need it. A key issue to look into further about affirmative action is the relationship to welfare.
It was definitely surprising after the Affirmative Action was mainly benefitting White Women because of the conflict between the purpose of Affirmative Action (to balance little bit of inequalities) and its actual use in societies. I am not trying to blame White women and I actually believe that they should deserve it. Why? Because White women were also suffered from the lack of rights including right to vote as well even though it is little bit hard to compare that persons of color with White women. However, what I want to make a point about it is that since Affirmative Action was made for reducing the gap between White person and Persons of color, persons of color would be the most beneficiaries. Since I was supporting the Affirmative Action not as a whole but as a part, it does not change my perspective.
alright, well consider this, women do deserve to gain from affirmative action. As much as i would like to see my brown brothers getting some money. women too were discriminated against just as bad. maybe not to the point of death or anything but they were beaten down pretty hard. and well, i would just like to see this change. i mean the purpose of affirmative action is to look out for groups people that are not being treated with due respect in some way theoretically so white women, your time is up, pass the torch and don't be mad…
It changes my mind on affirmative action to an extent because when I sat down for a discussion group for my first year seminar, mostly all of the white people were upset with me and other people of color for getting accepted into Penn State. They’re words were “Penn State is allowing lesser qualified individuals into the school instead of a person who really deserves to be here.” I felt like how could anyone say that all of us were not qualified to be here when they know nothing about us. The white men went on to say that if they were to apply for a job a person of color would get the position over them only because they were a person of color. After learning what I learned in Soc, it annoys me every time I hear a white person say that people of the color are the reason why they cannot do something; when its not primarily people of color stopping white males from advancing.
I feel that if you are the most qualified person you should get the job, the problem is white people always think they are the most qualified because how could a person of color be more qualified than them right? This may sound like I do not support Affirmative Action but I do to an extent. I feel that because everyone does not start at the same point in life they should be able to advance a little. However, I feel that a person who is well qualified for something or has a good social status does not need to be pushed up because who they were born as already gives them a leg up on other people. I also feel that white people need to stop blaming people of color for all of their problems, because we did nothing to you. I understand that you guys feel that affirmative action is wrong, but look at who’s benefitting from it the most! I hate that a lot of white people do not like to take responsibility for their actions for when it comes to people of color, not saying that people necessarily take responsibility for their actions either, but the blame is not on them.
I’m just glad that many of us now know that affirmative action is not something that people of color have as an advantage over white people, because it is not. I feel it is just a way for White Americans to say I am not racist and I am trying to help people of color because I let you in to this good school, or I gave you this job. Obviously, this is not what this system was for, if it really was started to help people at a disadvantage.
Personally, I wasn’t too surprised to hear that white women benefitted from affirmative action the most, because my discussion group talked about it before. But, when I first heard about it in my discussion group, I was shocked. I really didn’t think that would be the case. Even though I was surprised to hear this, I don’t believe that affirmative action should be abolished or anything in that nature.
When Sam first started to talk about affirmative action on Thursday, he began by asking the question, “How do we get rid of the unfairness?” or something along those lines. And to be perfectly honest, my partner and I both sat there and went, “Uhh” because we honestly had no idea how to answer that question. In that sense, whoever came up with affirmative action is a genius! In order to assuage the world of its problems with not treating people equally, someone had the smart idea to provide some kind of an advantage to people based on their groupings. In essence, affirmative action is great. It gives people who aren’t given the same advantages as others (and these advantages are not given to people by choice) a chance to be on equal groundings! It helped groups that do not belong in the “white male” category to get their say in society.
Sure, there are many times where affirmative action is unfair – especially when people abuse affirmative action and use it to their own advantage. These days, affirmative action seems to be the most associated with the college application process. Meaning, when someone says “affirmative action,” the first word that pops into most people’s heads is “college apps”. My example also has to do with the college application process and the results it brought upon my High School. I knew a kid in my school who put down “Hispanic” as their ethnicity category when he was applying for colleges – he was only a quarter Hispanic (and had the last name Lopez). That kid ended up at Columbia University instead of other plenty deserving students (That year, a kid that got accepted to Harvard got waitlisted to Columbia.). The kid got many disapproving stares. And when my discussion group was discussing affirmative action, I heard many “unfair” stories in which people that necessarily didn’t deserve to get into a college ended up at prestigious schools because of their ethnicity and/or race.
But you know what? Affirmative action is definitely necessary, even if it doesn’t always follow what it says. Even if it gives benefits to people that might not necessarily need to benefit from it, as long as someone out there benefits from affirmative action that needs it, it has a good place in society.
No, it doesn't change my mind on affirmative action at all. I've always had the same opinion on why I firmly believe affirmative action should exist. While I understand that the policy is unfair for white males, there are a lot of opportunities that white males benefit from that under-represented groups don't in academic and professional aspects. Reiterating what Sam said in class, it is in fact white males whom benefit the most from affirmative action.
Yes, there are those who believe that the policy has such a detrimental effect on how the standards for acceptance are lowered, but what they don't realize is the impact that it has on the workplace and in the educational system. I remember attending a conference last year, where it was announced that only 10-20% of Hispanic students graduate from high school. To me, that was a shocking statistic that really made me think – I wonder how many of that 10-20% will actually attend a four-year university? Also, the students that makeup that 10-20% aren't necessarily anywhere in the top of their class; all this statistic says is that small percent of students met the requirements for graduation. If there wasn't affirmative action, the opportunity for these students to attend 4-year universities would literally be extremely difficult. In addition, it's not just Hispanic students who face low graduation rates, I'm pretty sure it's common among other races/ethnicities. Thus, it is pretty clear that the population of under-represented groups would be practically insignificant relative to white students in the college environment. So how are we supposed to create equality when nearly all of the student population is white? (assuming no affirmative action)
I'd also like to address the stance, which states that affirmative action lowers the quality of the workplace or academic institution. First, there is no guarantee that a candidate competing for a job or acceptance into a college will actually follow through with it based purely on "ideal standards." The person who does the deciding is just gauging on which candidate has a high probability of succeeding – yet still no guarantee. I believe I'm a prime example of this because I'm a Hispanic student. When I applied to Penn State, I had a high school GPA of approximately 3.2-3.3 and a SAT score of approximately 1450 (out of 2400). I was trying to get into one of the top programs in the country for my major (mechanical engineering, which Penn State is ranked 11th in the US), but given my low grades and SAT scores, I didn't have much of a chance of getting accepted. Though I wasn't officially told, but I'm pretty sure affirmative action helped me in this process because getting accepted into the College of Engineering is very competitive at Penn State (typical accepted students had a GPA greater than a 3.6 and an SAT score over 1800). It wasn't until I received a call last minute from someone who told me they "found room" for me at University Park; I was originally offered to go to a branch campus. Now however, I am a junior with a 3.70 GPA and am dual enrolled in Mechanical and Nuclear Engineering; I'm also in the top %7 of both of my majors. So, do you really think I lowered the quality of Penn State's engineering program just because I didn't do that great in high school?
Overall, if you firmly believe in diversifying the student population at the college level, then you shouldn't believe in getting rid of affirmative action especially if it only impacts 10% of candidates.
I will be completely honest and admit that I had been duped for most of my life. I was told over and over again that black and brown people were the main beneficiaries of affirmative action. And because I had heard it over and over again, I began to believe that they were the majority of people who received benefits. So when the argument of affirmative action would come up I would think, "Oh here we go again, another white guy is going to recount another personal anecdote about a time when he or a friend or a family member did not get something that they 'rightfully deserved.'" I actually went through a couple of different phases of reactions. At one point I thought, "Well, we deserve something don't we!" At another point I thought, "There is no way you're going to tell me I didn't deserve everything that I earned. I've worked hard and anything I've gotten is my pay off." And at another point I even felt, "Hmmm, I guess it's not fair that 'less qualified' people get the positions." Then I came to the realization that many people were automatically equating being black and brown to being less qualified. So then I thought, "Oh hell no!" I don't remember in which order I experienced these emotions but I know I went through them all.
I say all that to say this, I always knew (like I had been taught) that women were a minority group. So I figure it may have occurred to me that women would benefit from any program that seeks to help minorities. But just from what I had experienced in my life, personally, I didn't see women as minorities. In my eyes, the women were far from inferior to men and they were in fact the crux to everything in life—not men. I could however see black and brown people being more disadvantaged than white people. And I knew it was more than just black, brown and white in the world, but it was much clearer to see the distinctions between these groups than it had been for me to see how issues of race affected, let's say, an Asian. There used to be times of my life where I would just lump any body of any color besides white in one big group and call them "minorities" and think it was all of us versus white man. Still women just weren't on my radar as "minorities". And to this day, I still feel like being a black female, I have two strikes against me, but I have more going against me because I'm black not because I'm a woman.
As far as white women being the main beneficiaries, well I can understand that. And at this stage of my life, I say more power to them. There are all kinds of people who need help to get to the next level in today's society. Sometimes I think there may be more factors that count against some people heavier than others. Like for example, I think people of the LGBT community may have a harder time advancing in certain areas in society as compared to a woman. And a person of a certain color may have a harder time than a person of a certain religion. It's unfortunate, but it's happening so systems like Affirmative Action need to occur in order to give people who wouldn't ordinarily have ANY opportunity to even try to compete in this rat race we call life. That's all Affirmative Action is in my book—an opportunity. The person bestowed with an opportunity to pursue a goal through Affirmative Action still has to show himself as competent and worthwhile investment. And maybe this is just wishful thinking, but in whatever area of life that the Affirmative Action occurs, I would hope that the person making the decision clearly chose someone who at least fits the requirements to do what needs to be done and not just chose them based solely off of a particular characteristic about them. But my experience is very limited. In fact, I've never truly been denied anything I pursued. Hey I might have unknowingly been a beneficiary of Affirmative Action myself. Just because white women might unknowingly be beneficiaries more than I am, I won't complain, we all need help sometimes and I'll get where I need to go however I get mine.
First off, do not assume that all black and brown people agree unconditionally with affirmative action. In all its good intentions affirmative action still falls short in many ways. I find it confusing and hard to justify affirmative action because, in order to level the playing field between white Christian males, some people of color, people of different faiths, and women of all these combinations must, in a way, step on the backs of others to attempt to have equal opportunity. I was peeing the other day in the HUB and I started to read the flyer that was staring me in the face. At the bottom of it, it read: "Penn State embraces affirmative action, equal opportunity and diversity of all peoples." I had difficulty pronouncing "affirmative action" and "equal opportunity" together. I wonder if employers consciously still make the decision to choose white women over male people of color? I could certainly see how this could be the case.
My opinions about affirmative action have shifted. I originally had several doubts about affirmative action, but now I have even more. I see Sam’s point about how this system of leveling the playing field benefits whites more than people of color.
There is something that disturbs me the most about the perceptions about students of color. I believe I have benefitted from affirmative action, but there are many other people of color who haven’t. I couldn’t tell you the amount of applications I received from colleges I did not even apply to; colleges who wanted me to attend them because of my Native American race and the lovely little integer I would add to their underclassman demographic statistics. Don’t let that lead you to make a hasty generalization about the academic performance or privileges that students of color are given in the application process. These tendencies can be combatted by always being conscious of that ever-prevalent percentage Sam showed us in class. Ten percent. Only ten percent of people currently employed have benefitted from affirmative action.
I am a little bothered that white women are chosen for more jobs, or acceptance at colleges not because they are white, but because for some reason we are inadvertently saying that its a better choice to have a woman work under you than a person of color. In the hierarchy of discrimination, does it logically follow that these statistics show that sexism is now less prevalent than racism? I am not advocating for all white women to be fired from their jobs because they are taking jobs away from people of color who are trying to work their way out of the lower and lower middle classes. But if this is the result of affirmative action as we have seen, clearly there is a lot more that must be done to level the playing field.
We all have our own thoughts on Affirmative Action before the class. I feel like the colored people in the class were more aware of the real reason of Affirmative Action and those who benefits from it. Women are the majority of the population who benefited from the Affirmative Action. I was not surprised by the results and I do know that the vast majority of the women who benefits are white women. After all, white women do make up a large percentage in women population in the United States. I am pretty sure that majority of the white people in the class were shocked in when they heard that white women were really the one benefiting from Affirmative Action. I noticed that the colored people in the class felt relieved and compelled when Sam actually spilled the truth on Affirmative Action.
Affirmative Action is designed to hel0p the less fortunate people in the society and the system beliefs that white women are actually the one in need of help. I am not sexist but I am pretty sure that the colored people in the United States needed more help than white women because they are the group that typically start at the dead end of the road. The system have stated affirmative action as a way to help the less fortunate. So, if white women are the less fortunate people of America, what are the colored people? These white women are getting married to white man, so where do the colored race falls? This system has been designed to rotate the countries wealth among the white people in the nation.
Yes, some blacks and Hispanic people are receiving help from the government, but it his much slower and lower that a typical American actually thinks. The system has been built so that the blacks and hispanics will stay at the bottom while whites continue to strive at the top of the economy. From the wording od the definition, Affirmative Actions seemed to be and should be helping the people of color. People of clor, especially the blacks have went through a lot for this counrty to be at the bottom of the economy. After slavery, the system was designed to keep black people working under the white mans will even though he or she was "free". How can you be free, when you depend on another race to survive? Nevertheless, it is not the fault of the black man that he is at the bottom of the economy. The blame should still be on the white system beacause of the way it was desinged. The system is now more of a social and economic standing. Those who are at already at the top will tend to stay at the top and those who are at the bottom will tend to stay at the bottom. So when a white man tries to use Affirmative Action as an excuse for a black man that achieved something, I want him or her to rethink their outlook on the situation. It is a shame a portion of the white population was not in class to hear and understand the true meaning of Affirmative Action. Because, I really want this to be spread around campus and the country if possible. We all need to how this so called "Home Of The Brave" is still built on favoritism of those at the top. Yes, this country hads not changed from from the past, it now just a different way of approaching the events that occured in the past.
I never really payed attention to the definition of affirmative action until I got to Penn State. And not until Sam's class did I really understand exactly who are the benifscors. Since the begging of the legislation of Affirmative action was set in place, it was for someone of a particular criteria to be given advantage over someone without that particular criteria. Unfortunately those who thought they would miraculously benefit the most did not really understand reality, which is that it is always a hidden agenda behind it all. The person in authority who writes the bill, will more than likely always try in some way to benefit from the action which would be put in place. People need to understand reality although there are good citizens and politicians out there willing to help there is always going to be the issue of every man to themselves which unfortunately how most issues are resolve, somewhat of the survival of the fits.
There are a lot of laws in our constitution that give false hope to citizens in the highest need. Affirmative action is one of those laws that falls under this unfortunate issue. Affirmative action was visioned to help minorities in need of a chance to prove that their credentials are just as good and resourceful as those who have been given an advantage in achieving and setting boundaries. Don't get me wrong now, affirmative action has helped people of color to a certain extent, the unfortunate factor in that all affirmative action is that it has not helped as many people as visioned to helped.
Sam talked in class about the major benifscors of affirmative action. He simply stated that white males who are the predominate authorities of a nation and its laws are the ones who are able to benefit from this law. Like stated before there is always a hidden agenda behind it all in order for the man writing the law to benefit from. Here is how the whole rundown was explained by sam. Not only colored people benefit from affirmative action but those of the female race, disable, and under representatives of our nations population. The white females which are in the middle or higher middle class are those who would be competing for job. Giving them the opportunity and chance to become a employee of whatever organization or company gave the authority the option to pull the affirmative action card in order to give their company organization a good rep without actually choosing an actual minority of disadvantage and actually given them a real chance. Therefore in the end the white man in Authority would be benefiting because the can lead their business or company and move on without open opening their arms to those of the minority population. This is a simple and brief explanation of how much of the American workforce of higher authority has been in much of the nation's history. As time goes by the opportunity for minorities are becoming a lot better but still need to come around a lot more.
After sitting in on this lecture, I was very surprised at what I learned and some of the things I am still unsure about. I do not know much about affirmative action, only that it helps people less fortunate and provides them with a better lifestyle. I was not really very surprised when I learned that the main beneficiaries were women. If you think about it, most are probably single mothers because the father dipped out, which happens in a lot of cases. Of course you hear the stories of some women having more children just so they could get more money. That obviously is a small percent of the people out there. What I did think was shocking was the majority of people benefitting from affirmative action were white women. As a white woman, I was very shocked to hear this. I grew up thinking it was mostly black people benefiting from this. I am glad that I went to class and learned this because it really opened my mind.
All growing up, I was raised to not see color and that everyone was equal. After sitting through these classes, I have learned that we are not all equal and that of course I see color. I do not mean to see it in a racist way but of course I see it, it is the first physical trait that I notice. I live right outside of Baltimore, a predominately black populated city. I have been in a diverse neighborhood all my life. In the city about 20 minutes away, there is an area set aside for something called section 8 housing. This housing is set up under affirmative action programs to benefit those less fortunate. I will admit that the majority of people living in this neighborhood are black. This is what my perception of affirmative action was based on. I often looked down upon this section 8 housing because I thought it was unfair. Having believed that everyone was equal, I did not support affirmative action. I thought that these people have a chance to better their lives and they are being handed housing for next to nothing. This did not seem fair to me. After sitting through some of these classes, I now realize that not everyone is equal to begin with. At the same time however, I still see a problem with affirmative action, even knowing the statistics. I think that some people do take advantage of this and the system is flawed this way. I think the general idea is good and well intentioned, I just think there are flaws that still need to be worked out. However, after sitting in this lecture, my view towards affirmative action has changed.
Although White women are the main benefactors of affirmative action, I think that it is needed just as much as affirmative action is needed for the Black and Brown people in our country. Women are also very highly underrepresented in our workforce and in many circumstances in our country. I understand what it means to be the only one in many circumstances and women at all levels have been discriminated against and left behind on numerous occasions. I don’t feel as though they were left as far behind as minorities by no means, but the truth is that they are in a similar predicament just like myself and my fellow peers. It is a shame when people start to feel as though they are slighted. We must make an effort to understand and not belittle others because of something that may be a fact.
I feel that this lecture was quite enlightening because there are a lot of people who are not aware of the statistics of actual affirmative action benefactors. There are some white women in my discussion group that get really angry because they feel that affirmative action is unfair to them because they feel that their opportunities to succeed have been cut short because of minorities. I am curious to see how they feel now that we have seen the facts. I feel that affirmative action works in theory but like all laws it depends who is enforcing them. Just like equal housing lenders and equal opportunity programs that we learned about in class, who don't necessarily always do everything by the book. Affirmative action is a way to even out the keel in race relations. If we want to move pass the messed up actions of the past we need to change what we can in the present to ensure equality for all. We have to understand the basic element when it boils down to it and it is the fact that we are all created equal just like our constitution says. Our constitution have our foundations written clearly for all American citizens to have access to all the rights this important document promises. Back to evening the disparity in our society with race inequality, i think that the cartoon depiction we saw in class about the white boy not helping out the black boy get on top of the roof because he feels it would be racist to help him climb the roof when white people had the help of minorities to get to the top as well, was very clever. Many people seem to have tunnel vision when talking about equality and how to go about it to make it better. White people didn't get to the top by themselves. They had the help of minorities who also shaped the future of this country. Many situations featured unfair treatment and in many cases certain successes were reached immorally and it also contradicted what the constitution mandates. Many white people now feel that was in the past was in the past and that now we can all have a fresh start and that we all have the same opportunities. But that's just not the case. I remember in class when Sam Richards mentioned the GI mortgage bills that were given to thousands of white soldiers from the ny/nj area while about 60 or so minorities received the same bills. The white people were able to "move on up" out of the cities and afford houses in the suburbs. The rest of the thousands of minorities who also served in the war did not get to move of of the apts in the cities. And that is what they left for their children while the white people who got to move to the suburbs left their children property and thats really all you need in this country to ensure wealth and credentials necessary to succeed.
To be honest I don't think that its that big of a deal. I understand that there are a lot of people who don't get jobs because of something that has to do with affirmative action. Look, I understand that there are programs set up to help people who are not given the opportunities as some other people in society and if there is someone out there willing to give them a hand in their life and give them a head start, then I don't see why its so bad. The truth is it doesn't bother me because I have never been a victim to the downside of affirmative action, I have never lost a job to someone who was under qualified or were a different race and so they got the opportunity over me. I mean maybe if something like this would have happened it would have been a different story, but who knows. I, being white was a little surprised that most beneficiaries were white women, but then again in this country a lot of the lower class are white women. If you think about it, it does make sense. I don't see how someone would be offended by a statistic.
I was very shocked to hear that affirmative action was given to mostly women. The statistics might be there, but I have never really seen a truth in this. I am a female and have applied to several jobs in the financial industry. I honestly do have great grades and have seen males get an interview, not even the job, a request for an interview, over me. This statement might sound ridiculous but I honestly thought that if a firm in the financial industry saw my resume with a female name and high grades they would request an interview from me over a male.
Even though I am a white female, I would like to address this question. When I found out affirmative action mostly affects white females I was very shocked. I had no idea what the statistics were on this topic and yet have always assumed affirmative action as a bad thing due to the negative publicity towards it. It is interesting to now know that I too can benefit from affirmative action. I was very naive when thinking about affirmative action in the past by assuming that it only benefited people of color and am embarrassed to say that I thought this was very unfair. Even though now I know more about this topic and that I can also receive benefits from it, I still deem it to be unfair. I don’t think I deserve a chance over other people because of my skin color or my gender. If anything I deserve a chance because I have earned it or because I have worked harder to get into the position I am in. And even though the statistics show that affirmative action assists women, I have personally never felt the rewards from this. I have not been given seniority over others because I am female, I have actually been looked down upon for that reason. It also interests me in how this topic is changing. When I was born, my mother wanted to give me a name that could be used for both males and females so that no job would judge me based on my name until they actually met me in person. It is interesting to see how this has been changing over the past 20 years and saying that I can now benefit because I am a female, instead of it being a hindering factor.
In my opinion, people should not be given freebies because of their racial origin or cultural makeup, instead I think, it should mostly be about merit. Just because I am a female does not mean I deserve a spot over a male who is similar to me. If we have equal grades and similar criteria then why should I be given the upper hand? …Because I am the ‘minority?’ It is not the male’s fault that he is who he is. So why is he challenged based on something he has no control over. No one chose to be in the position they are at. Some people are more fortunate than others but also, some people worked harder than others to get where they are, yet I know this is not true in every case.
Another issue which I find interesting is what someone mentioned in class on Thursday. Where do we draw the line on affirmative action? It is supposed to level the playing field but this can only be taken so far. And no matter what, someone will be given the shorter stick. As of today, it is white males who are slighted. Why should we all assume that every white male is better off than a white female or a black male? We do not know peoples’ lives or what they go through so why are we continually judging people based on race.
If we want to stop the racial profiling or the prejudice in the country then I think we should also lessen the emphasis on affirmative action. In a sense, it is its own kind of racial profiling by judging who to assist versus others.
I think what was most interesting about our class on affirmative action was that after class I talked to Sam, and he told me about how affirmative action is not based on "quotas" like we are lead to think. Maybe a little, but barely enough that is makes some sort of difference. This was news to me because I always thought that it was based on an idea of needing a certain amount of every kind of person to make your school just diverse enough. After class i have come to think that although the idea of trying to level the playing field may seem smart-the execution of affirmative action is terrible. They need to work on how they do that, I think that currently they are not accomplishing what they are trying to accomplish-they real point of affirmative action is getting lost.
i never really felt all that strongly about affirmative action because I felt that I wouldn’t want to benefit from it just because of my skin color or ethnicity. So in a way it kind of made me angry. After hearing that white women are the people who benefit most from affirmative action it just makes me a tad angry at the fact that so many people are just so quick to say that colored people are taking away this or taking away that when the entire time there isn’t much that is benefiting colored people to begin with and the fact that people can just say racist remarks because of that is just plain sad.
People are just never satisfied! We want equal rights for all and OBVIOUSLY minorities in this country DO NOT have an equal starting line compared to those who are of white descent so affirmative action is meant to give minorities the chance to start at the same point as someone who is white. I am thankful for affirmative action because if It weren't around, as a woman, I would not be in this school or getting the education I am getting. Today, women are attending colleges more than men and thanks to affirmative action, more women are getting higher degrees and better careers than in the past. It is not a give away, it is a way to equalize this harsh and unfair world. Why can't people just accept it as a good thing because many of those complaining about affirmative action may have benefited from it in the past or will benefit in the future.
Affirmative action may not be the best way to get a job but it is better than Nepotism. Affirmative action only affects ten percent of jobs and it gives lower class people who would not normally have an opportunity because of nepotism a chance to break through. If they broke through than their family is now reaping upper middle class benefits, their children get a better education and it may solidify upper class lifestyle for generations to come. I think it is good to give people a chance who would not normally even if they may not be as qualified. I have been given a job that I was not as qualifies as others but that just made me strive to worker harder to prove to others I actually deserved the jobs and I think this is commons with most people who get a job due to the benefits of affirmative action.
Affirmative Action I believe is almost passed its time. With the equality becoming closer and closer between races and sexes the differences are closing in. It is all in our minds now that women and men deserve equal opportunities and the same with whites and blacks. In reality when going for a job everything should be thrown out the window. There shouldn’t be quotas on how many minorities or females should be hired it should be computed strictly from their resumes and interviews. I believe there should be some sort form of assistance to people who are in a less fortunate state. I personally didn’t have to worry about how I was going to make it to college and get a degree. There are plenty of individuals out there however who are in less fortunate positions. We should provide people who are unable to afford education an opportunity to prove themselves that they should earn money for education.
Honestly, no it doesn't change my mind about affirmative action. Maybe it was just my perspective, but I never really felt like affirmative action affected me or anyone I knew so I never had a reason to support it. I find it interesting that this question was posed to the Black and brown people as opposed to the whites. Wouldn't it be better to ask THEM if it changed their opinions about the program? Every time admissions come up I always hear at least one person say something about "They probably only got in because of affirmative action. It's not fair. I'm sure there was some White person that didn't get in because they took their spot."
Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I'm not saying that ALL white people say these things, but I have heard it before. So what I want to know is what happened that led people to believe that this mainly benefited Black and brown people? Why isn't it known that it benefits white women? And so what if it did benefit an inner city Black kid? Would it really be so bad to give them an opportunity to get higher education and get them out of a bad living situation?
Well to begin with, I never really had an opinion on affirmative action, because I don’t feel like the information and opinions that people all around me were expressing had any real basis. I found most were all really angry and it was only the white students and my Asian friends (, whom I already realized that they considered themselves white) that were barking this “terrible injustice” at me instead of trying to discuss it all. And then they were usually angered when I told them that, well I don’t know much about that topic or politics in general and didn’t know how do decide what was true or false, they would be even more outraged.
I don’t even know why the only white people that I’ve met who are willing to show all their cards at the race relations table are trying to encourage me to get mad, and I not totally sure what they feel I should be mad at. I’ve been told time and time again by the same people, racism doesn’t exist and you would have to do like a serious people serious person search, backpack through mountains, cross a few rivers, and use ancient caves and tunnels to find someone who is still racist. So, as soon as some bill is passed that they fully don’t understand because they are in so much denial, they feel defensive like someone is trying to hurt them.
But learning about affirmative action now, I feel like the original idea was really good and I understand how it is suppose to be leveling the playing field for everyone, but it is just not doing the job.
What learning that affirmative action really mostly benefits white women makes me think of is, is just the white people who are so outraged. It really makes me concerned that so many are throwing fits, making racist statements, generalizations, and assumptions about black and brown people who are successful in a career field out of our stereotype column. I mean when white people who are either too young to see the entire picture listen to the older white people who are have clouded judgment by whatever. If a black person became wealthy and isn’t a pro-basket ball player, affirmative action must have stolen some poor white man’s job from him. Which is completely unfair.
For a while I became a little concerned that maybe the white people that were yelling at me, that maybe their argument could have some truth in it, that I couldn’t see because I wasn’t very involved. But now I see, they don’t, and learning about this fact, has really opened my eyes to how badly a bill could be interpreted, it's a serious problem.
Affirmative action was implemented to help all those minority groups, either by race, gender, or ethnicity to have opportunities that weren’t available to them. So no, it doesn’t change my mind about it and doesn’t surprise me. Women make less money than men do even when they have the same amount of experience. It’s because of affirmative action that now women outnumber men in universities. More women are part of government, and head of companies. White women also make up the greatest portion of the population so by just that it should seem dumb to think that they aren’t the main beneficiaries of affirmative action.
It doesn't change my opinion of affirmative action. I still believe affirmative action is both good in its intentions, but stupid in its execution. It is one of the very few issues I simply do not have a steady stance on. As a person of Indian descent, I definitely do not want a job, or a merit, or a diploma, simply because of my nationality. Call me backwards, but I want to earn what I get. I feel this way about any benefitters of affirmative action, whether it be black men, white women, black women, Asian children, Eastern European homosexuals, etc… ANYTHING. If somebody is truly and genuinely qualified for something, they should get it, regardless of what their skin color is. If somebody else is more qualified than they are, then that person should get it. Simple. I do think nepotism and affirmative action are two very different things, however. When you help out a family member, you already know their character and attributes, as they relate to the position at hand. Affirmative action is just blind in its superficial distribution of benefits.
[Reply]
akeem10 Reply:
April 3rd, 2010 at 1:25 am
No, this does not change my mind on my views of Affirmative Action. I have already knew that Affirmative Action was designed to benefit women and I am not surprised that white women are the one who benefited the most from it. After all, the majority of the women population in the United States belongs to the white race. I am glad that Sam Richards explained the situation to the class because I knew that vast amount of the white people in the class always thought that Affirmative Action is geared towards the benefits of the people of color. It was too bad that a good amount of the class were not there to learned what Affirmative Action really is. Nevertheless, I feel like more whites are now rethinking their views of Affirmative Action after that class.
[Reply]
mattmcgloin Reply:
April 9th, 2010 at 12:34 am
i agree with what you are saying. this was made so that women, people with disabilities and veterans and primarily African Americans who were denied employment could have an equal opportunity. i am not surprised that white woman have benefited the most from this. white women control a great deal of the population in the united states and it was considered for many years that they could not do the job of a man and this has helped them greatly. at first i thought it only helped African Americans but now that i know it helps white women too and that they benefit the most i have to say i am not surprised
[Reply]
gcj Reply:
April 3rd, 2010 at 2:37 am
I agree with Akeem10, I am glad Sam talked about this issue to educate a lot of the white students about affirmative action. A lot of times they see black kids on campus and assume we are only here because affirmative action. I know some people may try to deny it but it was evident in many of the classes. Whites would bring up affirmative action and talk how it is unfair. It is fair if the people are starting without the same advantages as you. Sam’s example about the Obamas was a good comparison. Truth is many of the people of color could think as analytically, speak as eloquently, and behave as civil ( or better) than whites.
[Reply]
I think and have always thought that affirmative action works in many ways. I don’t feel any differently when It comes to getting benefits because you are of a different race. For example, I am a woman and I’m black, but that doesn’t change the fact that I may be a “minority” in a particular situation.
Back when civil rights were passed, women’s suffrage was still going on. Women weren’t able to have the same rights as men, I mean think of what it was like to be back in that era. I am a black woman, so I barely had ANY rights. The point of affirmative action is to give a leg up to those who may not have the same advantage as someone else does. It’s supposed to make up for it, and lessen the gap between the two. So in any case, practically anyone can reap the benefits of affirmative action for themselves. If you were the only woman, you might have received a benefit. Maybe one of the few minorities in the room, you may have had some help.
What I kind of want to bring up is something Sam said a while back. Sometimes we don’t know if we are benefitting from affirmative action. Penn State kind of needs minority students. I know I did very good in high school and I have always been a person who worked hard… but was that because I got into the high school I went to, or because I grew up in the neighborhood I did or was raised the way I was raised? Thinking about affirmative action scares me because that may mean I’m doing something somewhere simply because of the fact that I am a minority, not because I am a talented person.
Now to answer the question, I really don’t feel any way about others benefitting from affirmative action because it wasn’t really made specifically for minorities – that’s just want it’s known for. I feel that anyone who is deserving of it should benefit from it. Obviously if your parents make over a million a year, you wouldn’t get a scholarship. Or, if your parents have contacts with a Fortune 500 Company, you don’t need that edge in a job interview. I feel that whoever needs the help, gets the help as long as their willing and qualified to do it. I don’t believe in hand outs. You work hard for what you get, despite what affirmative action may prove.
The reason why its there is because it’s honestly needed and someone generally have a benefit without it. Like Sam said, being white has a benefit to it. People may choose a white guy over a black guy because they are white. Affirmative action helps to fix the blatant discrimination and give minorities who ARE fully capable of doing the job to get a chance to actually do it.
[Reply]
I am not responding directly to the video’s question so I know this is a bit off-topic, but I was thinking today about the guy in the red jersey who said in class yesterday that he didn’t understand why anyone should feel bad about the nepotism issue. At first I, like many people in the class, sort of just shook my head and thought “wow how can this kid not realize what’s wrong here”. However, although I still don’t agree with the principle by itself, I have a few issues with everyone being completely against it. First, if you get a job at a bank over more qualified people (for example because your father is a CEO) that is clearly not really fair for the other people vying for the job. But you really need to think from the perspective as the one with the CEO father instead of the other applicants. To start with, the son didn’t choose for his dad to be a big-shot CEO and his father being in a position to help him out has now enabled him to make his own choice. While for other applicants its up to people at the bank hiring, for this kid it becomes his choice whether to take the position. So, if he takes the position he clearly had an unfair advantage, but he now has a great job with great benefits and is set for life. Or, he can simply choose not to take the job (even though he is more or less eligible for it even if he isn’t the strongest applicant). If he chooses the latter than he subsequently settles for a second-rate job with fewer benefits, less pay, and less prestige. How many people in our 700-person class are honestly going to choose NOT to take the nepotism-fueled position because it’s “not fair”. I wouldn’t dare try to say I wouldn’t because I think if the situation arose and I could have a better job to provide more for my family it’s an easy choice. The only real downside is knowing that someone I have never met (not necessarily of a different color/ethnicity) doesn’t get the position even though they might have deserved it more than me. Call me an ass but I’m sorry I am going to take the position. As long as I’m not doing anything that is obviously and forcefully illegal, to the point where I could actually go to jail for accepting it (unlikely since my father would be the CEO of the bank and he can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants), I don’t see how I CANT take the job. It just seems too difficult a choice to make for someone that I don’t know and for all I know could be some pompous adulterer. I guess my overall point is that its easy to sit back and complain about nepotism when you are not on the receiving end but that same person is likely going to accept any benefits they can get when the opportunity comes calling. And that goes for people of all colors…
[Reply]
As a 20 year old black female, I feel like this is a very interesting point. I have always been a supporter of affirmative action. Why? Because my people deserve it, that's why. The white members of our society have such an advantage over us colored folk. And, affirmative action, from what I believed, was supposed to help people of color in necessary situations. I hate Sam Richards for telling me this new truth. I feel as if I have believed in something my whole life, and now I am told it is a lie. Let me tell you a story that comes to mind. A rich white boy and I were both applying for the french fry job at McDonalds. There was an intense try out, consisting of 48 straight hours of making french fries and switching out the grease. I actually slipped up and burnt several batches of my fries. But since we both completed the tryout, I was given the job due to what I believed was affirmative action. Good thing I was not competing against some white girl.
[Reply]
teenzy212 Reply:
April 3rd, 2010 at 2:55 am
Harsh, don't you think? Affirmative action was said to MOSTLY help white women, not totally and completely. And I think it's pretty pathetic you would only support affirmative action because it helps "your people." Shouldn't you be happy no matter who it helps? It's helping people who don't have an equal opportunity at a job or school or whatever the case. The point is, it is benefitting someone who is at a disadvantage. I understand why you believe colored people are at a greater disadvantage in society, but women in general are at a disadvantage in society. So maybe, as a 20 year old FEMALE, you should still be a little grateful that your fellow women are having an equal playing field with men.
[Reply]
MeghanYingling Reply:
April 15th, 2010 at 3:17 am
I support affirmative action, for those who deserve it. Just because you are black doesnt mean you deserve it. That is outrageous. There are plenty of people, black, hispanic, indian, chinese, white who need it. If you deserve it, you will probably get it. It is there for people who dont have an equal opportunity, and just because you are black doesnt mean you dont always have an equal opportunity. Yes, being white does give someone an advantage sometimes, but not all the time. Being black does not automatically mean you are considered inferior to white people or any other race for that matter. And how do you know that white boy was rich? I just want to point out that you go to Penn State, an expensive school.
[Reply]
When I heard that affirmative action was mostly given to women, and especially white women, I was completely shocked. I never would have guessed this because I think that most people believed that much of the affirmative action is used to help people of color. As a white male, I feel as though this would change a person’s mind and people may become bitterer about the topic. I know that many people thought that black and brown people received the benefits of affirmative action, so I don’t see how this information wouldn’t anger people. I know that if I were the one being affected, I would be upset that a program that was set up to help people like myself was going to people who we least expected.
[Reply]
I do not have any feelings that have been changed about affirmative action. I feel that it has changed with the times and the women were beneficiaries since they had to face sexism in he workplace and still do. I feel that all sorts of injustices should be dealt with. If it happens to be that white women benefit, then it just happens. I am not going to run around and blow whistles and cry foul. Affirmative action is meant to help people who face prejudices and disadvantages. It is not limited to the color of your skin or your sex or any type of physical you have. In some way shape or form, affirmative action has benefited a good majority of us.
[Reply]
I am not surprised at all that the main beneficiaries of affirmitive action are women. Think about it.. White man are the ones who structured affirmitive action, they formed affirmitive action in a way that it would ultimitaly help them out. For instance white males, overall run the government/America they felt the pressures of inequality, they obviously see it. They probably thought well.. we need to find a way to "help" out the minorities and the number 1 minoritiy white males are most inclined to help are women. White women that is. They were able to create affirmitive action and define how they would establish it in way that makes America look like its actually attempting to fix and help out the less fortunate. Their plan was/is perfect. They make themselves look good at a bull shit scheme while in turn they are helping white women. Who are these white women marrying.. White men. Then they have kids that are white and then their kids are able to have two parents with very good jobs. i know its far from this simple but, i believe affirmitive action was put into place to help white men. They knew how this would effect them, and its affecting them very positively.I know minorities like blacks and hispanics are recieving some small sort of benefit also but its much slower then what people think it actually is. Again im not surprise. This is how America has been ran and this is how it will continue to run. Those on top stay on top. (white people). White men to be more exact. And now with affrimitive action these white men are starting to feel guilty about being on top so the create affrimitve action. But they made it to only help the person lying on the other side of the bed at night, next to them, their wives. They "kept it in the family".I think that the wives of these men have had lots of arguments about how they dont think its fair for them to stay home all day taking care of the kids and cooking. And that they would like to pursue an education and attempt to have their own careers and it seems after alot of conversation between the two aka nagging by the wife. The men all got together and thought up affirmitive action but painted it with a black and brown brush. Which makes them look like they did not for colored people but inturn they did it to better their families and themselves it just happened that colored people are able to recieve the off target minor benefits fromt this whole thing. I know alot of people are going to read this and think wow am i serious about what im saying and I am. This plot almost sounds too good to be schemed up but its not and it was.
[Reply]
When I heard that affirmative action was mostly given to women that did not shock me. But when I heard that affirmative action was mostly given to white women, that was very shocking to me. The reason it did not shock me to begin with that women received the benefits of affirmative action is because I pictured black women, brown women, yellow women, and so on and so forth. I was not picturing little white women reaping the benefits of the affirmative action, I was picturing the minority women. I think that this is unfair because white people already have such advantages over black people, and brown people, and yellow people, and all of these other colors that are considered the minority in our country. If affirmative action is supposed to help the less fortunate and the people who need helping, then I guess I just do not understand why it would ever go to help white women. I understand the fact that women are considered the minority on the whole between men and women but I feel that in this day and age the difference between men and women is a thing of the past more or less and that the difference between races has gotten better, but it is much further from equality than men and women are. I feel that affirmative action is just a crutch that people can use in order to hire more white people…even if they are women. I do not think that this was the purpose that was intended for the affirmative action laws. I think it was supposed to be more directed towards people of color and even if it was not supposed to be directed more towards people of color and that it was supposed to be weighed just as heavily upon women, I feel that that assumption or that law, it would now be necessary to alter that rule because of the shift in society. If that law only does more to influence white women in business or the work place then that is no longer the focus and that is now an antiquated law. I myself am a white woman and yes, it is nice to know that my "species" (if you can even call white women a specific species) is flourishing, but I really do not think that that should be a result of affirmative action because I think that that should not be the purpose of the law. It is almost as if the creators of the law made a secret clause in it and just publicized it as a law for the advancement of colored people. I think that there should be a change made to the wording of the law so that it can serve it's intended purpose.
[Reply]
When Sam mentioned that white women benefit most from affirmative action, I honestly was not that surprised. I knew that minorities benefit most from affirmative action, but many still seem to forget that women are minorities too. Now, I am not trying to take away the fact that other minorities have it rougher than I do. Sam says that we have power as white people and I see it every day from people who look down on racial minorities before they even say one word. People do not always seem to remember that women make less money than a man in the same position. I do understand this is getting better, but we are still looked down upon for simply being female.
I honestly think I was hired for my first job because I am female. I had no prior experience whatsoever and I was interviewing in an electronic store. Everyone knows that males dominate those jobs, and it was very apparent when I started working there and the female to male employee ratio was in the teens. I also think that the company knows that and that managers in a way seek out females for positions when we show interest. I also remember being told about a male and the female in the same position were not being paid the same. The female had even been with the company longer than the male. Of course, they tell you not to share your salary with anyone, but they were friends and it came out one day. Granted, yes, they did raise her salary when she brought it up, but for that year of thinking they were making the same, she was cheated.
I think that anyone with the desire to succeed should be given a chance to prove themselves. I do not think I was an exceptional student (by my standards) in high school enough to grant me access to Penn State, but I was accepted for some reason. I just wanted a big university that had my major. I am out of state and not wealthy by any means, living with a single parent who is a teacher. I was accepted for some reason and flooded with financial aid, which is really what made it possible for me to attend. Why was I chosen among thousands for this aid over others? I do not know, but I know they were trying to give me a shot to succeed.
I do not believe affirmative action to be preferential treatment, but I think it benefits those who need it and benefit from it legitimately. I will never know for sure why I have gone through the path that I have, but if I have others to credit then I jump at that chance. While you need to be able to make it on your own, it can be more important to accept help from those willing to provide it.
[Reply]
I don't think knowing that affirmative action mainly benefits white women changes my perspective about it. Affirmative action is there to balance social inequality and if that means that women are going to benefit from it, so be it. Also, I think that whatever race you are your perspective to affirmative action should not be affected. As an Indian girl, I don't think I have ever benefited from affirmative action. Most white people automatically assume that affirmative action has benefited people of color. I have to work as hard as anyone at my high school to get into Penn State. As long as some other under represented groups benefit from affirmative action, it is completely fine with me.
[Reply]
Affirmative Action is good in intention but bad in action. I was surprised to learn that most affirmative action plans benefit white females. Like another blogger said, most of the women deserving of this are white because white is the majority race. This goes hand in hand with nepotism. Affirmative actions really should be given to those in need, but if we are all equal, well that’s called communism and an entirely whole other issue. Anyways, I think the government needs to rethink their policy on affirmative action and truly give it to those people who need it. A key issue to look into further about affirmative action is the relationship to welfare.
[Reply]
It was definitely surprising after the Affirmative Action was mainly benefitting White Women because of the conflict between the purpose of Affirmative Action (to balance little bit of inequalities) and its actual use in societies. I am not trying to blame White women and I actually believe that they should deserve it. Why? Because White women were also suffered from the lack of rights including right to vote as well even though it is little bit hard to compare that persons of color with White women. However, what I want to make a point about it is that since Affirmative Action was made for reducing the gap between White person and Persons of color, persons of color would be the most beneficiaries. Since I was supporting the Affirmative Action not as a whole but as a part, it does not change my perspective.
[Reply]
alright, well consider this, women do deserve to gain from affirmative action. As much as i would like to see my brown brothers getting some money. women too were discriminated against just as bad. maybe not to the point of death or anything but they were beaten down pretty hard. and well, i would just like to see this change. i mean the purpose of affirmative action is to look out for groups people that are not being treated with due respect in some way theoretically so white women, your time is up, pass the torch and don't be mad…
[Reply]
It changes my mind on affirmative action to an extent because when I sat down for a discussion group for my first year seminar, mostly all of the white people were upset with me and other people of color for getting accepted into Penn State. They’re words were “Penn State is allowing lesser qualified individuals into the school instead of a person who really deserves to be here.” I felt like how could anyone say that all of us were not qualified to be here when they know nothing about us. The white men went on to say that if they were to apply for a job a person of color would get the position over them only because they were a person of color. After learning what I learned in Soc, it annoys me every time I hear a white person say that people of the color are the reason why they cannot do something; when its not primarily people of color stopping white males from advancing.
I feel that if you are the most qualified person you should get the job, the problem is white people always think they are the most qualified because how could a person of color be more qualified than them right? This may sound like I do not support Affirmative Action but I do to an extent. I feel that because everyone does not start at the same point in life they should be able to advance a little. However, I feel that a person who is well qualified for something or has a good social status does not need to be pushed up because who they were born as already gives them a leg up on other people. I also feel that white people need to stop blaming people of color for all of their problems, because we did nothing to you. I understand that you guys feel that affirmative action is wrong, but look at who’s benefitting from it the most! I hate that a lot of white people do not like to take responsibility for their actions for when it comes to people of color, not saying that people necessarily take responsibility for their actions either, but the blame is not on them.
I’m just glad that many of us now know that affirmative action is not something that people of color have as an advantage over white people, because it is not. I feel it is just a way for White Americans to say I am not racist and I am trying to help people of color because I let you in to this good school, or I gave you this job. Obviously, this is not what this system was for, if it really was started to help people at a disadvantage.
[Reply]
Personally, I wasn’t too surprised to hear that white women benefitted from affirmative action the most, because my discussion group talked about it before. But, when I first heard about it in my discussion group, I was shocked. I really didn’t think that would be the case. Even though I was surprised to hear this, I don’t believe that affirmative action should be abolished or anything in that nature.
When Sam first started to talk about affirmative action on Thursday, he began by asking the question, “How do we get rid of the unfairness?” or something along those lines. And to be perfectly honest, my partner and I both sat there and went, “Uhh” because we honestly had no idea how to answer that question. In that sense, whoever came up with affirmative action is a genius! In order to assuage the world of its problems with not treating people equally, someone had the smart idea to provide some kind of an advantage to people based on their groupings. In essence, affirmative action is great. It gives people who aren’t given the same advantages as others (and these advantages are not given to people by choice) a chance to be on equal groundings! It helped groups that do not belong in the “white male” category to get their say in society.
Sure, there are many times where affirmative action is unfair – especially when people abuse affirmative action and use it to their own advantage. These days, affirmative action seems to be the most associated with the college application process. Meaning, when someone says “affirmative action,” the first word that pops into most people’s heads is “college apps”. My example also has to do with the college application process and the results it brought upon my High School. I knew a kid in my school who put down “Hispanic” as their ethnicity category when he was applying for colleges – he was only a quarter Hispanic (and had the last name Lopez). That kid ended up at Columbia University instead of other plenty deserving students (That year, a kid that got accepted to Harvard got waitlisted to Columbia.). The kid got many disapproving stares. And when my discussion group was discussing affirmative action, I heard many “unfair” stories in which people that necessarily didn’t deserve to get into a college ended up at prestigious schools because of their ethnicity and/or race.
But you know what? Affirmative action is definitely necessary, even if it doesn’t always follow what it says. Even if it gives benefits to people that might not necessarily need to benefit from it, as long as someone out there benefits from affirmative action that needs it, it has a good place in society.
[Reply]
No, it doesn't change my mind on affirmative action at all. I've always had the same opinion on why I firmly believe affirmative action should exist. While I understand that the policy is unfair for white males, there are a lot of opportunities that white males benefit from that under-represented groups don't in academic and professional aspects. Reiterating what Sam said in class, it is in fact white males whom benefit the most from affirmative action.
Yes, there are those who believe that the policy has such a detrimental effect on how the standards for acceptance are lowered, but what they don't realize is the impact that it has on the workplace and in the educational system. I remember attending a conference last year, where it was announced that only 10-20% of Hispanic students graduate from high school. To me, that was a shocking statistic that really made me think – I wonder how many of that 10-20% will actually attend a four-year university? Also, the students that makeup that 10-20% aren't necessarily anywhere in the top of their class; all this statistic says is that small percent of students met the requirements for graduation. If there wasn't affirmative action, the opportunity for these students to attend 4-year universities would literally be extremely difficult. In addition, it's not just Hispanic students who face low graduation rates, I'm pretty sure it's common among other races/ethnicities. Thus, it is pretty clear that the population of under-represented groups would be practically insignificant relative to white students in the college environment. So how are we supposed to create equality when nearly all of the student population is white? (assuming no affirmative action)
I'd also like to address the stance, which states that affirmative action lowers the quality of the workplace or academic institution. First, there is no guarantee that a candidate competing for a job or acceptance into a college will actually follow through with it based purely on "ideal standards." The person who does the deciding is just gauging on which candidate has a high probability of succeeding – yet still no guarantee. I believe I'm a prime example of this because I'm a Hispanic student. When I applied to Penn State, I had a high school GPA of approximately 3.2-3.3 and a SAT score of approximately 1450 (out of 2400). I was trying to get into one of the top programs in the country for my major (mechanical engineering, which Penn State is ranked 11th in the US), but given my low grades and SAT scores, I didn't have much of a chance of getting accepted. Though I wasn't officially told, but I'm pretty sure affirmative action helped me in this process because getting accepted into the College of Engineering is very competitive at Penn State (typical accepted students had a GPA greater than a 3.6 and an SAT score over 1800). It wasn't until I received a call last minute from someone who told me they "found room" for me at University Park; I was originally offered to go to a branch campus. Now however, I am a junior with a 3.70 GPA and am dual enrolled in Mechanical and Nuclear Engineering; I'm also in the top %7 of both of my majors. So, do you really think I lowered the quality of Penn State's engineering program just because I didn't do that great in high school?
Overall, if you firmly believe in diversifying the student population at the college level, then you shouldn't believe in getting rid of affirmative action especially if it only impacts 10% of candidates.
[Reply]
I will be completely honest and admit that I had been duped for most of my life. I was told over and over again that black and brown people were the main beneficiaries of affirmative action. And because I had heard it over and over again, I began to believe that they were the majority of people who received benefits. So when the argument of affirmative action would come up I would think, "Oh here we go again, another white guy is going to recount another personal anecdote about a time when he or a friend or a family member did not get something that they 'rightfully deserved.'" I actually went through a couple of different phases of reactions. At one point I thought, "Well, we deserve something don't we!" At another point I thought, "There is no way you're going to tell me I didn't deserve everything that I earned. I've worked hard and anything I've gotten is my pay off." And at another point I even felt, "Hmmm, I guess it's not fair that 'less qualified' people get the positions." Then I came to the realization that many people were automatically equating being black and brown to being less qualified. So then I thought, "Oh hell no!" I don't remember in which order I experienced these emotions but I know I went through them all.
I say all that to say this, I always knew (like I had been taught) that women were a minority group. So I figure it may have occurred to me that women would benefit from any program that seeks to help minorities. But just from what I had experienced in my life, personally, I didn't see women as minorities. In my eyes, the women were far from inferior to men and they were in fact the crux to everything in life—not men. I could however see black and brown people being more disadvantaged than white people. And I knew it was more than just black, brown and white in the world, but it was much clearer to see the distinctions between these groups than it had been for me to see how issues of race affected, let's say, an Asian. There used to be times of my life where I would just lump any body of any color besides white in one big group and call them "minorities" and think it was all of us versus white man. Still women just weren't on my radar as "minorities". And to this day, I still feel like being a black female, I have two strikes against me, but I have more going against me because I'm black not because I'm a woman.
As far as white women being the main beneficiaries, well I can understand that. And at this stage of my life, I say more power to them. There are all kinds of people who need help to get to the next level in today's society. Sometimes I think there may be more factors that count against some people heavier than others. Like for example, I think people of the LGBT community may have a harder time advancing in certain areas in society as compared to a woman. And a person of a certain color may have a harder time than a person of a certain religion. It's unfortunate, but it's happening so systems like Affirmative Action need to occur in order to give people who wouldn't ordinarily have ANY opportunity to even try to compete in this rat race we call life. That's all Affirmative Action is in my book—an opportunity. The person bestowed with an opportunity to pursue a goal through Affirmative Action still has to show himself as competent and worthwhile investment. And maybe this is just wishful thinking, but in whatever area of life that the Affirmative Action occurs, I would hope that the person making the decision clearly chose someone who at least fits the requirements to do what needs to be done and not just chose them based solely off of a particular characteristic about them. But my experience is very limited. In fact, I've never truly been denied anything I pursued. Hey I might have unknowingly been a beneficiary of Affirmative Action myself. Just because white women might unknowingly be beneficiaries more than I am, I won't complain, we all need help sometimes and I'll get where I need to go however I get mine.
[Reply]
First off, do not assume that all black and brown people agree unconditionally with affirmative action. In all its good intentions affirmative action still falls short in many ways. I find it confusing and hard to justify affirmative action because, in order to level the playing field between white Christian males, some people of color, people of different faiths, and women of all these combinations must, in a way, step on the backs of others to attempt to have equal opportunity. I was peeing the other day in the HUB and I started to read the flyer that was staring me in the face. At the bottom of it, it read: "Penn State embraces affirmative action, equal opportunity and diversity of all peoples." I had difficulty pronouncing "affirmative action" and "equal opportunity" together. I wonder if employers consciously still make the decision to choose white women over male people of color? I could certainly see how this could be the case.
My opinions about affirmative action have shifted. I originally had several doubts about affirmative action, but now I have even more. I see Sam’s point about how this system of leveling the playing field benefits whites more than people of color.
There is something that disturbs me the most about the perceptions about students of color. I believe I have benefitted from affirmative action, but there are many other people of color who haven’t. I couldn’t tell you the amount of applications I received from colleges I did not even apply to; colleges who wanted me to attend them because of my Native American race and the lovely little integer I would add to their underclassman demographic statistics. Don’t let that lead you to make a hasty generalization about the academic performance or privileges that students of color are given in the application process. These tendencies can be combatted by always being conscious of that ever-prevalent percentage Sam showed us in class. Ten percent. Only ten percent of people currently employed have benefitted from affirmative action.
I am a little bothered that white women are chosen for more jobs, or acceptance at colleges not because they are white, but because for some reason we are inadvertently saying that its a better choice to have a woman work under you than a person of color. In the hierarchy of discrimination, does it logically follow that these statistics show that sexism is now less prevalent than racism? I am not advocating for all white women to be fired from their jobs because they are taking jobs away from people of color who are trying to work their way out of the lower and lower middle classes. But if this is the result of affirmative action as we have seen, clearly there is a lot more that must be done to level the playing field.
[Reply]
We all have our own thoughts on Affirmative Action before the class. I feel like the colored people in the class were more aware of the real reason of Affirmative Action and those who benefits from it. Women are the majority of the population who benefited from the Affirmative Action. I was not surprised by the results and I do know that the vast majority of the women who benefits are white women. After all, white women do make up a large percentage in women population in the United States. I am pretty sure that majority of the white people in the class were shocked in when they heard that white women were really the one benefiting from Affirmative Action. I noticed that the colored people in the class felt relieved and compelled when Sam actually spilled the truth on Affirmative Action.
Affirmative Action is designed to hel0p the less fortunate people in the society and the system beliefs that white women are actually the one in need of help. I am not sexist but I am pretty sure that the colored people in the United States needed more help than white women because they are the group that typically start at the dead end of the road. The system have stated affirmative action as a way to help the less fortunate. So, if white women are the less fortunate people of America, what are the colored people? These white women are getting married to white man, so where do the colored race falls? This system has been designed to rotate the countries wealth among the white people in the nation.
Yes, some blacks and Hispanic people are receiving help from the government, but it his much slower and lower that a typical American actually thinks. The system has been built so that the blacks and hispanics will stay at the bottom while whites continue to strive at the top of the economy. From the wording od the definition, Affirmative Actions seemed to be and should be helping the people of color. People of clor, especially the blacks have went through a lot for this counrty to be at the bottom of the economy. After slavery, the system was designed to keep black people working under the white mans will even though he or she was "free". How can you be free, when you depend on another race to survive? Nevertheless, it is not the fault of the black man that he is at the bottom of the economy. The blame should still be on the white system beacause of the way it was desinged. The system is now more of a social and economic standing. Those who are at already at the top will tend to stay at the top and those who are at the bottom will tend to stay at the bottom. So when a white man tries to use Affirmative Action as an excuse for a black man that achieved something, I want him or her to rethink their outlook on the situation. It is a shame a portion of the white population was not in class to hear and understand the true meaning of Affirmative Action. Because, I really want this to be spread around campus and the country if possible. We all need to how this so called "Home Of The Brave" is still built on favoritism of those at the top. Yes, this country hads not changed from from the past, it now just a different way of approaching the events that occured in the past.
[Reply]
I never really payed attention to the definition of affirmative action until I got to Penn State. And not until Sam's class did I really understand exactly who are the benifscors. Since the begging of the legislation of Affirmative action was set in place, it was for someone of a particular criteria to be given advantage over someone without that particular criteria. Unfortunately those who thought they would miraculously benefit the most did not really understand reality, which is that it is always a hidden agenda behind it all. The person in authority who writes the bill, will more than likely always try in some way to benefit from the action which would be put in place. People need to understand reality although there are good citizens and politicians out there willing to help there is always going to be the issue of every man to themselves which unfortunately how most issues are resolve, somewhat of the survival of the fits.
There are a lot of laws in our constitution that give false hope to citizens in the highest need. Affirmative action is one of those laws that falls under this unfortunate issue. Affirmative action was visioned to help minorities in need of a chance to prove that their credentials are just as good and resourceful as those who have been given an advantage in achieving and setting boundaries. Don't get me wrong now, affirmative action has helped people of color to a certain extent, the unfortunate factor in that all affirmative action is that it has not helped as many people as visioned to helped.
Sam talked in class about the major benifscors of affirmative action. He simply stated that white males who are the predominate authorities of a nation and its laws are the ones who are able to benefit from this law. Like stated before there is always a hidden agenda behind it all in order for the man writing the law to benefit from. Here is how the whole rundown was explained by sam. Not only colored people benefit from affirmative action but those of the female race, disable, and under representatives of our nations population. The white females which are in the middle or higher middle class are those who would be competing for job. Giving them the opportunity and chance to become a employee of whatever organization or company gave the authority the option to pull the affirmative action card in order to give their company organization a good rep without actually choosing an actual minority of disadvantage and actually given them a real chance. Therefore in the end the white man in Authority would be benefiting because the can lead their business or company and move on without open opening their arms to those of the minority population. This is a simple and brief explanation of how much of the American workforce of higher authority has been in much of the nation's history. As time goes by the opportunity for minorities are becoming a lot better but still need to come around a lot more.
[Reply]
After sitting in on this lecture, I was very surprised at what I learned and some of the things I am still unsure about. I do not know much about affirmative action, only that it helps people less fortunate and provides them with a better lifestyle. I was not really very surprised when I learned that the main beneficiaries were women. If you think about it, most are probably single mothers because the father dipped out, which happens in a lot of cases. Of course you hear the stories of some women having more children just so they could get more money. That obviously is a small percent of the people out there. What I did think was shocking was the majority of people benefitting from affirmative action were white women. As a white woman, I was very shocked to hear this. I grew up thinking it was mostly black people benefiting from this. I am glad that I went to class and learned this because it really opened my mind.
All growing up, I was raised to not see color and that everyone was equal. After sitting through these classes, I have learned that we are not all equal and that of course I see color. I do not mean to see it in a racist way but of course I see it, it is the first physical trait that I notice. I live right outside of Baltimore, a predominately black populated city. I have been in a diverse neighborhood all my life. In the city about 20 minutes away, there is an area set aside for something called section 8 housing. This housing is set up under affirmative action programs to benefit those less fortunate. I will admit that the majority of people living in this neighborhood are black. This is what my perception of affirmative action was based on. I often looked down upon this section 8 housing because I thought it was unfair. Having believed that everyone was equal, I did not support affirmative action. I thought that these people have a chance to better their lives and they are being handed housing for next to nothing. This did not seem fair to me. After sitting through some of these classes, I now realize that not everyone is equal to begin with. At the same time however, I still see a problem with affirmative action, even knowing the statistics. I think that some people do take advantage of this and the system is flawed this way. I think the general idea is good and well intentioned, I just think there are flaws that still need to be worked out. However, after sitting in this lecture, my view towards affirmative action has changed.
[Reply]
Although White women are the main benefactors of affirmative action, I think that it is needed just as much as affirmative action is needed for the Black and Brown people in our country. Women are also very highly underrepresented in our workforce and in many circumstances in our country. I understand what it means to be the only one in many circumstances and women at all levels have been discriminated against and left behind on numerous occasions. I don’t feel as though they were left as far behind as minorities by no means, but the truth is that they are in a similar predicament just like myself and my fellow peers. It is a shame when people start to feel as though they are slighted. We must make an effort to understand and not belittle others because of something that may be a fact.
[Reply]
I feel that this lecture was quite enlightening because there are a lot of people who are not aware of the statistics of actual affirmative action benefactors. There are some white women in my discussion group that get really angry because they feel that affirmative action is unfair to them because they feel that their opportunities to succeed have been cut short because of minorities. I am curious to see how they feel now that we have seen the facts. I feel that affirmative action works in theory but like all laws it depends who is enforcing them. Just like equal housing lenders and equal opportunity programs that we learned about in class, who don't necessarily always do everything by the book. Affirmative action is a way to even out the keel in race relations. If we want to move pass the messed up actions of the past we need to change what we can in the present to ensure equality for all. We have to understand the basic element when it boils down to it and it is the fact that we are all created equal just like our constitution says. Our constitution have our foundations written clearly for all American citizens to have access to all the rights this important document promises. Back to evening the disparity in our society with race inequality, i think that the cartoon depiction we saw in class about the white boy not helping out the black boy get on top of the roof because he feels it would be racist to help him climb the roof when white people had the help of minorities to get to the top as well, was very clever. Many people seem to have tunnel vision when talking about equality and how to go about it to make it better. White people didn't get to the top by themselves. They had the help of minorities who also shaped the future of this country. Many situations featured unfair treatment and in many cases certain successes were reached immorally and it also contradicted what the constitution mandates. Many white people now feel that was in the past was in the past and that now we can all have a fresh start and that we all have the same opportunities. But that's just not the case. I remember in class when Sam Richards mentioned the GI mortgage bills that were given to thousands of white soldiers from the ny/nj area while about 60 or so minorities received the same bills. The white people were able to "move on up" out of the cities and afford houses in the suburbs. The rest of the thousands of minorities who also served in the war did not get to move of of the apts in the cities. And that is what they left for their children while the white people who got to move to the suburbs left their children property and thats really all you need in this country to ensure wealth and credentials necessary to succeed.
[Reply]
To be honest I don't think that its that big of a deal. I understand that there are a lot of people who don't get jobs because of something that has to do with affirmative action. Look, I understand that there are programs set up to help people who are not given the opportunities as some other people in society and if there is someone out there willing to give them a hand in their life and give them a head start, then I don't see why its so bad. The truth is it doesn't bother me because I have never been a victim to the downside of affirmative action, I have never lost a job to someone who was under qualified or were a different race and so they got the opportunity over me. I mean maybe if something like this would have happened it would have been a different story, but who knows. I, being white was a little surprised that most beneficiaries were white women, but then again in this country a lot of the lower class are white women. If you think about it, it does make sense. I don't see how someone would be offended by a statistic.
[Reply]
I was very shocked to hear that affirmative action was given to mostly women. The statistics might be there, but I have never really seen a truth in this. I am a female and have applied to several jobs in the financial industry. I honestly do have great grades and have seen males get an interview, not even the job, a request for an interview, over me. This statement might sound ridiculous but I honestly thought that if a firm in the financial industry saw my resume with a female name and high grades they would request an interview from me over a male.
[Reply]
Even though I am a white female, I would like to address this question. When I found out affirmative action mostly affects white females I was very shocked. I had no idea what the statistics were on this topic and yet have always assumed affirmative action as a bad thing due to the negative publicity towards it. It is interesting to now know that I too can benefit from affirmative action. I was very naive when thinking about affirmative action in the past by assuming that it only benefited people of color and am embarrassed to say that I thought this was very unfair. Even though now I know more about this topic and that I can also receive benefits from it, I still deem it to be unfair. I don’t think I deserve a chance over other people because of my skin color or my gender. If anything I deserve a chance because I have earned it or because I have worked harder to get into the position I am in. And even though the statistics show that affirmative action assists women, I have personally never felt the rewards from this. I have not been given seniority over others because I am female, I have actually been looked down upon for that reason. It also interests me in how this topic is changing. When I was born, my mother wanted to give me a name that could be used for both males and females so that no job would judge me based on my name until they actually met me in person. It is interesting to see how this has been changing over the past 20 years and saying that I can now benefit because I am a female, instead of it being a hindering factor.
In my opinion, people should not be given freebies because of their racial origin or cultural makeup, instead I think, it should mostly be about merit. Just because I am a female does not mean I deserve a spot over a male who is similar to me. If we have equal grades and similar criteria then why should I be given the upper hand? …Because I am the ‘minority?’ It is not the male’s fault that he is who he is. So why is he challenged based on something he has no control over. No one chose to be in the position they are at. Some people are more fortunate than others but also, some people worked harder than others to get where they are, yet I know this is not true in every case.
Another issue which I find interesting is what someone mentioned in class on Thursday. Where do we draw the line on affirmative action? It is supposed to level the playing field but this can only be taken so far. And no matter what, someone will be given the shorter stick. As of today, it is white males who are slighted. Why should we all assume that every white male is better off than a white female or a black male? We do not know peoples’ lives or what they go through so why are we continually judging people based on race.
If we want to stop the racial profiling or the prejudice in the country then I think we should also lessen the emphasis on affirmative action. In a sense, it is its own kind of racial profiling by judging who to assist versus others.
[Reply]
I think what was most interesting about our class on affirmative action was that after class I talked to Sam, and he told me about how affirmative action is not based on "quotas" like we are lead to think. Maybe a little, but barely enough that is makes some sort of difference. This was news to me because I always thought that it was based on an idea of needing a certain amount of every kind of person to make your school just diverse enough. After class i have come to think that although the idea of trying to level the playing field may seem smart-the execution of affirmative action is terrible. They need to work on how they do that, I think that currently they are not accomplishing what they are trying to accomplish-they real point of affirmative action is getting lost.
[Reply]
i never really felt all that strongly about affirmative action because I felt that I wouldn’t want to benefit from it just because of my skin color or ethnicity. So in a way it kind of made me angry. After hearing that white women are the people who benefit most from affirmative action it just makes me a tad angry at the fact that so many people are just so quick to say that colored people are taking away this or taking away that when the entire time there isn’t much that is benefiting colored people to begin with and the fact that people can just say racist remarks because of that is just plain sad.
[Reply]
People are just never satisfied! We want equal rights for all and OBVIOUSLY minorities in this country DO NOT have an equal starting line compared to those who are of white descent so affirmative action is meant to give minorities the chance to start at the same point as someone who is white. I am thankful for affirmative action because if It weren't around, as a woman, I would not be in this school or getting the education I am getting. Today, women are attending colleges more than men and thanks to affirmative action, more women are getting higher degrees and better careers than in the past. It is not a give away, it is a way to equalize this harsh and unfair world. Why can't people just accept it as a good thing because many of those complaining about affirmative action may have benefited from it in the past or will benefit in the future.
[Reply]
Affirmative action may not be the best way to get a job but it is better than Nepotism. Affirmative action only affects ten percent of jobs and it gives lower class people who would not normally have an opportunity because of nepotism a chance to break through. If they broke through than their family is now reaping upper middle class benefits, their children get a better education and it may solidify upper class lifestyle for generations to come. I think it is good to give people a chance who would not normally even if they may not be as qualified. I have been given a job that I was not as qualifies as others but that just made me strive to worker harder to prove to others I actually deserved the jobs and I think this is commons with most people who get a job due to the benefits of affirmative action.
[Reply]
Affirmative Action I believe is almost passed its time. With the equality becoming closer and closer between races and sexes the differences are closing in. It is all in our minds now that women and men deserve equal opportunities and the same with whites and blacks. In reality when going for a job everything should be thrown out the window. There shouldn’t be quotas on how many minorities or females should be hired it should be computed strictly from their resumes and interviews. I believe there should be some sort form of assistance to people who are in a less fortunate state. I personally didn’t have to worry about how I was going to make it to college and get a degree. There are plenty of individuals out there however who are in less fortunate positions. We should provide people who are unable to afford education an opportunity to prove themselves that they should earn money for education.
[Reply]
Honestly, no it doesn't change my mind about affirmative action. Maybe it was just my perspective, but I never really felt like affirmative action affected me or anyone I knew so I never had a reason to support it. I find it interesting that this question was posed to the Black and brown people as opposed to the whites. Wouldn't it be better to ask THEM if it changed their opinions about the program? Every time admissions come up I always hear at least one person say something about "They probably only got in because of affirmative action. It's not fair. I'm sure there was some White person that didn't get in because they took their spot."
Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I'm not saying that ALL white people say these things, but I have heard it before. So what I want to know is what happened that led people to believe that this mainly benefited Black and brown people? Why isn't it known that it benefits white women? And so what if it did benefit an inner city Black kid? Would it really be so bad to give them an opportunity to get higher education and get them out of a bad living situation?
[Reply]
Well to begin with, I never really had an opinion on affirmative action, because I don’t feel like the information and opinions that people all around me were expressing had any real basis. I found most were all really angry and it was only the white students and my Asian friends (, whom I already realized that they considered themselves white) that were barking this “terrible injustice” at me instead of trying to discuss it all. And then they were usually angered when I told them that, well I don’t know much about that topic or politics in general and didn’t know how do decide what was true or false, they would be even more outraged.
I don’t even know why the only white people that I’ve met who are willing to show all their cards at the race relations table are trying to encourage me to get mad, and I not totally sure what they feel I should be mad at. I’ve been told time and time again by the same people, racism doesn’t exist and you would have to do like a serious people serious person search, backpack through mountains, cross a few rivers, and use ancient caves and tunnels to find someone who is still racist. So, as soon as some bill is passed that they fully don’t understand because they are in so much denial, they feel defensive like someone is trying to hurt them.
But learning about affirmative action now, I feel like the original idea was really good and I understand how it is suppose to be leveling the playing field for everyone, but it is just not doing the job.
What learning that affirmative action really mostly benefits white women makes me think of is, is just the white people who are so outraged. It really makes me concerned that so many are throwing fits, making racist statements, generalizations, and assumptions about black and brown people who are successful in a career field out of our stereotype column. I mean when white people who are either too young to see the entire picture listen to the older white people who are have clouded judgment by whatever. If a black person became wealthy and isn’t a pro-basket ball player, affirmative action must have stolen some poor white man’s job from him. Which is completely unfair.
For a while I became a little concerned that maybe the white people that were yelling at me, that maybe their argument could have some truth in it, that I couldn’t see because I wasn’t very involved. But now I see, they don’t, and learning about this fact, has really opened my eyes to how badly a bill could be interpreted, it's a serious problem.
[Reply]
Affirmative action was implemented to help all those minority groups, either by race, gender, or ethnicity to have opportunities that weren’t available to them. So no, it doesn’t change my mind about it and doesn’t surprise me. Women make less money than men do even when they have the same amount of experience. It’s because of affirmative action that now women outnumber men in universities. More women are part of government, and head of companies. White women also make up the greatest portion of the population so by just that it should seem dumb to think that they aren’t the main beneficiaries of affirmative action.
[Reply]