Comments on: Week 8 – Lesson 14: Affirmative Action http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/ "A tiny act can have profound effects." Wed, 06 Oct 2010 00:09:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: maripositanegra http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-2/#comment-33198 maripositanegra Wed, 18 Aug 2010 04:37:04 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33198 I was shocked to discover that only 10% of boosts are provided by affirmative action because the ruckus that is caused by those opposed to it would have one believe that the percentage was much higher. Conversely, I was not surprised to discover that the largest beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women, simply because I believe that the beneficiaries of many social programs are often the unintended recipients. I do, however, think that women of all colors need and deserve some level of affirmative action to balance out the gender inequality gap that has been perpetuated for so long in this country alongside racial inequality. I also would have to agree that many of the first people to scream “farce” about affirmative action are often talking out of both sides of their mouths because they are often those who have benefitted so many times from nepotism, which as Sam pointed out is equal to affirmative action. I think the problem lies in that, like he also pointed out, most humans, especially those who are privileged, are arrogant enough to believe that they are only benefitting from nepotism because they are better than another. So although the same issues are at the foundation of both affirmative action and nepotism, most people don’t see that the main difference is that one is sanctioned by the government and the other the same thing just shrouded in secrecy at that personal level. And so one has to ask, how many benefits are enough? Are you really crying over the one or two extra hands that I may dealt after receiving 16 million?! I think that a very important point was made during the lecture, in that most times even if someone does “unfairly” gain something in society due to affirmative action, that person usually has to produce three times more and surmount ten times the adversity once they are there in order to stay – especially if it is a known fact that they were given some sort of boost by affirmative action. Moreover, I believe that affirmative action is one of the few effective ways to even the playing field in a system steeped in institutionalized racism, however, many of those that are against it are often too uneducated or too unwilling to see that it runs so deep. Additionally, many of those same people don’t even understand how the system of affirmative action works, and that it is more about redirection and second looks, as opposed to hand outs and quotas as is so often argued. So my bottom line and opinion on affirmative action is directly in line with that of President Obama, which is that it should benefit those who most need it based on socioeconomic status and not race. In essence those people of color who need it will thus benefit more often than not because more often than not those are the people at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Loved the cartoons by the way! I was shocked to discover that only 10% of boosts are provided by affirmative action because the ruckus that is caused by those opposed to it would have one believe that the percentage was much higher. Conversely, I was not surprised to discover that the largest beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women, simply because I believe that the beneficiaries of many social programs are often the unintended recipients. I do, however, think that women of all colors need and deserve some level of affirmative action to balance out the gender inequality gap that has been perpetuated for so long in this country alongside racial inequality. I also would have to agree that many of the first people to scream “farce” about affirmative action are often talking out of both sides of their mouths because they are often those who have benefitted so many times from nepotism, which as Sam pointed out is equal to affirmative action. I think the problem lies in that, like he also pointed out, most humans, especially those who are privileged, are arrogant enough to believe that they are only benefitting from nepotism because they are better than another. So although the same issues are at the foundation of both affirmative action and nepotism, most people don’t see that the main difference is that one is sanctioned by the government and the other the same thing just shrouded in secrecy at that personal level. And so one has to ask, how many benefits are enough? Are you really crying over the one or two extra hands that I may dealt after receiving 16 million?! I think that a very important point was made during the lecture, in that most times even if someone does “unfairly” gain something in society due to affirmative action, that person usually has to produce three times more and surmount ten times the adversity once they are there in order to stay – especially if it is a known fact that they were given some sort of boost by affirmative action. Moreover, I believe that affirmative action is one of the few effective ways to even the playing field in a system steeped in institutionalized racism, however, many of those that are against it are often too uneducated or too unwilling to see that it runs so deep. Additionally, many of those same people don’t even understand how the system of affirmative action works, and that it is more about redirection and second looks, as opposed to hand outs and quotas as is so often argued. So my bottom line and opinion on affirmative action is directly in line with that of President Obama, which is that it should benefit those who most need it based on socioeconomic status and not race. In essence those people of color who need it will thus benefit more often than not because more often than not those are the people at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Loved the cartoons by the way!

]]> By: charlan10 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-1/#comment-33157 charlan10 Fri, 09 Jul 2010 23:58:15 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33157 I to was awakened to my own bias in the world of affirmative action. I just always assumed rather than took the time to become educated on the subject. White women being the number one beneficiaries of affirmative action would never have been my guess. As most people I am sure who know little on the subject would have guess people of another race, but as the white man always does, we protect our interests. Even when people believe there is no beneficial way white people are benefiting from affirmative action we raise the curtains and show you other wise. I to was awakened to my own bias in the world of affirmative action. I just always assumed rather than took the time to become educated on the subject. White women being the number one beneficiaries of affirmative action would never have been my guess. As most people I am sure who know little on the subject would have guess people of another race, but as the white man always does, we protect our interests. Even when people believe there is no beneficial way white people are benefiting from affirmative action we raise the curtains and show you other wise.

]]> By: charlan10 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-2/#comment-33156 charlan10 Fri, 09 Jul 2010 23:50:39 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33156 Lecture 14 July 9, 2010 Before the beginning of this class I would probably have been on the other side of affirmative action than I am now. I considered affirmative action to be an outdated practice that started to lost its effectiveness and merely now was placing unqualified people in jobs based on race or sex. This is to fault of my own and to millions upon millions of people in this country. We are all so quick to decide where we stand on issues with little knowledge in the subject. Without the data and Dr. Richards insight to current problems we still face with discrimination I am sure my opinion would have remained the same. It is impossible to argue with the facts that were presented in class to come to the conclusion that discrimination is not a big problem in the workforce anymore. It, in my opinion, is morally unjust for me to have such a substantial advantage over an individual based on the color of my skin or my sex. However, this is the world we live in, constantly surrounded by injustice. Also, as many others I am sure, believed affirmative action came with quotas and through this class I learned that this is not only not true but also illegal. I believe the ability for humans to come to conclusions so quickly on a subject without doing proper research and “wrestling of the mind” is a major problem we all should concern ourselves with. We see it everyday and is only becoming more outlandish as we see our media and others associated becoming more biased and taking words out of context or blatantly lying to form their objective. For example, the death panel issue brought to the table over healthcare. Millions of people were concerned over this issue believing this meant euthanasia. How misguided could one be? How do they believe something like this would be possible in America. People generally do not want to hear the truth, they want to hear the “truth” that already supports what they believe. This also goes into the completely biased patriot of this country. How many times do you hear when you question or condemn the actions of the United States you are greeted with the response, “ if you don’t like this country you can get out.” People are quick to come to anger over this subject by why? To believe the United States is this nurturing, always does what’s right body is a misguided ideal at best. The United States is responsible for a lot of suffering in this world, this does not mean that we also don’t do good for people but to believe we don’t create a lot of sadness is completely biased. And to question this and condemn it is not wrong, in my opinion it is far from that. It is the morally and ethical thing to do because we can not throw a blind eye to the destruction we bring to this world. Lecture 14 July 9, 2010

Before the beginning of this class I would probably have been on the other side of affirmative action than I am now. I considered affirmative action to be an outdated practice that started to lost its effectiveness and merely now was placing unqualified people in jobs based on race or sex. This is to fault of my own and to millions upon millions of people in this country. We are all so quick to decide where we stand on issues with little knowledge in the subject. Without the data and Dr. Richards insight to current problems we still face with discrimination I am sure my opinion would have remained the same. It is impossible to argue with the facts that were presented in class to come to the conclusion that discrimination is not a big problem in the workforce anymore. It, in my opinion, is morally unjust for me to have such a substantial advantage over an individual based on the color of my skin or my sex. However, this is the world we live in, constantly surrounded by injustice. Also, as many others I am sure, believed affirmative action came with quotas and through this class I learned that this is not only not true but also illegal. I believe the ability for humans to come to conclusions so quickly on a subject without doing proper research and “wrestling of the mind” is a major problem we all should concern ourselves with. We see it everyday and is only becoming more outlandish as we see our media and others associated becoming more biased and taking words out of context or blatantly lying to form their objective. For example, the death panel issue brought to the table over healthcare. Millions of people were concerned over this issue believing this meant euthanasia. How misguided could one be? How do they believe something like this would be possible in America. People generally do not want to hear the truth, they want to hear the “truth” that already supports what they believe. This also goes into the completely biased patriot of this country. How many times do you hear when you question or condemn the actions of the United States you are greeted with the response, “ if you don’t like this country you can get out.” People are quick to come to anger over this subject by why? To believe the United States is this nurturing, always does what’s right body is a misguided ideal at best. The United States is responsible for a lot of suffering in this world, this does not mean that we also don’t do good for people but to believe we don’t create a lot of sadness is completely biased. And to question this and condemn it is not wrong, in my opinion it is far from that. It is the morally and ethical thing to do because we can not throw a blind eye to the destruction we bring to this world.

]]> By: Buddyruse21 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-2/#comment-33149 Buddyruse21 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:43:17 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33149 Affirmative action is a phrase that has grown to something like evolution. Many people see it and instantly get mad. I’ve found that I disagree with affirmative action on many levels, just because we haven’t found a balance that works for everyone. It makes sense to try to help balance people to have equal opportunities, but not when it starts to push someone else out of the path. For example, I’ve found that this has become an answer for some of our differences between our races. It’s like the old image of a race where white people left black people shackled at the starting line. When they were given rights, they were able to start running, but they couldn’t possibly catch up with the white folk. This is where government programs and charities and things like affirmative action are used, but I don’t think that that is right. First off, its too simple to think of ALL of Human history as a single line and a continuous event like a race. I feel like we’re beyond that. In the early days of our country, the society was outright racist and discriminatory. Now it’s a battle that deals with individuals, because our racism and discrimination is mainly done by individuals and how they see their neighbors. When someone passes someone for a job, and it’s based on their race or their ethnicity, it’s a personal choice. This is where we’re having problems. If you want to use the “race”, then in a way, other races are still being shackled, but instead of societal chains they’re being held by individuals at the starting line. The way that people like to stop this is by taking the people that are running ahead of those and forcing them to take a pit stop while the shackled people are given rides on golf carts to let them catch up. One of the major problems with this is the fact that we never feel that we’ve done enough. Should we let them stand side by side with the other races? Or should we give them a little head-start to help make up for what we’ve done to them in the past. This happens more than I care to count. The result is that the balance is lost and is actually flipped. Instead, we have white MALES being held back while everyone else is allowed to gain advantages because they NEED to be assisted. But how is that right? I sometimes feel like if I open my mouth and point out that I’m being discriminated against, then I’ll be seen as a racist ignorant guy. But it’s wrong! I’m all for helping out people who need it, but I think that we need to keep a balance. It’s not right to try to help one race and ignore the one on top. Why can’t we just look at each other as Americans and deal with it that way. If you don’t have the grades to get into school, then you shouldn’t get in with a scholarship. Poor people of all colors should have equal opportunities for scholarships and grants. I may sound racist to you, but I think that it’s more racist to look at race for eligibility, rather than merit. It blows my mind! Affirmative action is a phrase that has grown to something like evolution. Many people see it and instantly get mad. I’ve found that I disagree with affirmative action on many levels, just because we haven’t found a balance that works for everyone. It makes sense to try to help balance people to have equal opportunities, but not when it starts to push someone else out of the path. For example, I’ve found that this has become an answer for some of our differences between our races. It’s like the old image of a race where white people left black people shackled at the starting line. When they were given rights, they were able to start running, but they couldn’t possibly catch up with the white folk. This is where government programs and charities and things like affirmative action are used, but I don’t think that that is right. First off, its too simple to think of ALL of Human history as a single line and a continuous event like a race. I feel like we’re beyond that. In the early days of our country, the society was outright racist and discriminatory. Now it’s a battle that deals with individuals, because our racism and discrimination is mainly done by individuals and how they see their neighbors. When someone passes someone for a job, and it’s based on their race or their ethnicity, it’s a personal choice. This is where we’re having problems. If you want to use the “race”, then in a way, other races are still being shackled, but instead of societal chains they’re being held by individuals at the starting line. The way that people like to stop this is by taking the people that are running ahead of those and forcing them to take a pit stop while the shackled people are given rides on golf carts to let them catch up. One of the major problems with this is the fact that we never feel that we’ve done enough. Should we let them stand side by side with the other races? Or should we give them a little head-start to help make up for what we’ve done to them in the past. This happens more than I care to count. The result is that the balance is lost and is actually flipped. Instead, we have white MALES being held back while everyone else is allowed to gain advantages because they NEED to be assisted. But how is that right? I sometimes feel like if I open my mouth and point out that I’m being discriminated against, then I’ll be seen as a racist ignorant guy. But it’s wrong! I’m all for helping out people who need it, but I think that we need to keep a balance. It’s not right to try to help one race and ignore the one on top. Why can’t we just look at each other as Americans and deal with it that way. If you don’t have the grades to get into school, then you shouldn’t get in with a scholarship. Poor people of all colors should have equal opportunities for scholarships and grants. I may sound racist to you, but I think that it’s more racist to look at race for eligibility, rather than merit. It blows my mind!

]]> By: Buddyruse21 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-1/#comment-33148 Buddyruse21 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:42:44 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33148 I completely agree with you about the school systems. I went to a very poor rural school, and I lucked out getting into Penn State. However, I think that you’re wrong in assuming that they would kill to be in your shoes. What happens in some of these very poor schools is that the kids don’t realize that they are being screwed over by the poorness of their school and education. They just assume that things are as they are and you just do what you have to do. At my school, the kids looked at me weird when I didn’t go to the local school for college. It’s what everybody does. I was wrong because I saw how bad my education system was, and decided to change. I completely agree with you about the school systems. I went to a very poor rural school, and I lucked out getting into Penn State. However, I think that you’re wrong in assuming that they would kill to be in your shoes. What happens in some of these very poor schools is that the kids don’t realize that they are being screwed over by the poorness of their school and education. They just assume that things are as they are and you just do what you have to do. At my school, the kids looked at me weird when I didn’t go to the local school for college. It’s what everybody does. I was wrong because I saw how bad my education system was, and decided to change.

]]> By: bsa5057 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-2/#comment-33147 bsa5057 Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:15:59 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33147 I think part of what is happening about how people tend not to follow the commandments sometimes is because of how strict and controlling they might be for a person who is being born with an instinct and a nature for longing to be free. For example the issues of using God’s name in vain, and the other about how people are making the love and respect for God is second to their respect for some other issue or thing that is happening in their lives. As you mentioned: relationship, something they really admire, etc. And sometimes I find myself guilty of believing the person who is more serious about God, are more trustworthy. I think part of what is happening about how people tend not to follow the commandments sometimes is because of how strict and controlling they might be for a person who is being born with an instinct and a nature for longing to be free. For example the issues of using God’s name in vain, and the other about how people are making the love and respect for God is second to their respect for some other issue or thing that is happening in their lives. As you mentioned: relationship, something they really admire, etc. And sometimes I find myself guilty of believing the person who is more serious about God, are more trustworthy.

]]> By: psurevelry http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-2/#comment-33146 psurevelry Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:14:20 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33146 I am totally with you about the trading schools segment. It was so disheartening to watch and see all the inequality going on just miles from one another. No one does ever talk about how to bring about social equality it is a little taboo in our society today because I think no one wants to talk about what caused it and what perpetuates the inequality in our society. The percentages were even more depressing to think that at one school almost all of them are going to graduate where at the other less than half will. I think it also makes you think about what if half of my graduating class did not graduate and how growing up around that would have affected me. I am totally with you about the trading schools segment. It was so disheartening to watch and see all the inequality going on just miles from one another. No one does ever talk about how to bring about social equality it is a little taboo in our society today because I think no one wants to talk about what caused it and what perpetuates the inequality in our society. The percentages were even more depressing to think that at one school almost all of them are going to graduate where at the other less than half will. I think it also makes you think about what if half of my graduating class did not graduate and how growing up around that would have affected me.

]]> By: psurevelry http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-2/#comment-33145 psurevelry Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:09:10 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33145 I would think that it is so unfair but life is not fair. AA was made to combat institutional discrimination and probably inequality. I think it is hard to watch the video because some people want to have the opportunities and try to succeed in life and you see that them doing there best but is not enough because they are not given the same resources. I think in an ideal world everyone would have the same opportunities and resources available in order to succeed in life and then it would be an even playing field. I guess it is just so disheartened when you realize how the world really works and how things can just never be equal. I would think that it is so unfair but life is not fair. AA was made to combat institutional discrimination and probably inequality. I think it is hard to watch the video because some people want to have the opportunities and try to succeed in life and you see that them doing there best but is not enough because they are not given the same resources. I think in an ideal world everyone would have the same opportunities and resources available in order to succeed in life and then it would be an even playing field. I guess it is just so disheartened when you realize how the world really works and how things can just never be equal.

]]> By: psurevelry http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-2/#comment-33144 psurevelry Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:09:01 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33144 The idea was that society needed to help get rid of the man made obstacles that others have placed in front of some people to stop them on their journey to get ahead. It also is hard to hear that affirmative action does not really help to way it was intended to help. The end goal of what affirmative action really helps is the white males but those are not the people that need to help. The Harper high school video was hard to watch cause it shows a lot of inequality in the same city. It is hard to think that people in a school have a little chance to graduate because a lot of there circumstances. I think it makes people just see how the world really is and what is going on out there. The idea was that society needed to help get rid of the man made obstacles that others have placed in front of some people to stop them on their journey to get ahead. It also is hard to hear that affirmative action does not really help to way it was intended to help. The end goal of what affirmative action really helps is the white males but those are not the people that need to help. The Harper high school video was hard to watch cause it shows a lot of inequality in the same city. It is hard to think that people in a school have a little chance to graduate because a lot of there circumstances. I think it makes people just see how the world really is and what is going on out there.

]]> By: psurevelry http://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action/comment-page-2/#comment-33143 psurevelry Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:08:19 +0000 http://www.racerelationsproject.org/?p=2247#comment-33143 Affirmative Action. Words pretty much every college student has heard once but probably more in their academic careers. Words we will probably hear again in academia and the work force. I think it is a strange thing to talk about this subject because when it was created it was a while back and for some necessary reasons. I think it is hard to think about how people will never be equal. I think of course in some eyes there is a reason for this because some people are seeing things from a racist perspective but if thinking about it from some people do not want to aspire to be everything they can. I think it this then that they cannot be equal to others because they do not want to try to be equal to others. I definitely understand the professors view of being a libertarian in believing that people should be able to do want they want I think as long as it does not do harm to others. I never knew that affirmative action benefited women mostly especially not white women. I think when affirmative action was created it had the write idea because inequality was so prevalent in our society. Affirmative Action. Words pretty much every college student has heard once but probably more in their academic careers. Words we will probably hear again in academia and the work force. I think it is a strange thing to talk about this subject because when it was created it was a while back and for some necessary reasons. I think it is hard to think about how people will never be equal. I think of course in some eyes there is a reason for this because some people are seeing things from a racist perspective but if thinking about it from some people do not want to aspire to be everything they can. I think it this then that they cannot be equal to others because they do not want to try to be equal to others. I definitely understand the professors view of being a libertarian in believing that people should be able to do want they want I think as long as it does not do harm to others. I never knew that affirmative action benefited women mostly especially not white women. I think when affirmative action was created it had the write idea because inequality was so prevalent in our society.

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